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  1. #1
    Anywhere_but_here Guest

    Default Do you consider these unnecessary vet care?

    I need some input from you professional breeders. Help!

    Last year I did a "free lease to own" situation on a wonderful TB mare that I love to bits. She was in foal at the time I took her, and the owner simply wanted the foal back after weaning and then she would hand over the registration documents.

    In the contract, it states that "L_____ is responsible for vet expenses in regards to the foal.".

    Now she's claiming that the vet expenses I'm claiming are unnecessary and she is refusing to pay them.

    What I need to know is if you consider the following unnecessary care as she claims.

    1. Pre-foaling vaccinations. The mare received the Prestige V 5-way and the West Nile Innovator about a month or so prior to the foal being born.

    2. New Foal Exam. This included a through check of the foal, including doing an IgG test, an examination of the mare for tearing or bruising, and making sure that the Placenta was of normal weight and intact.

    Please let me know if I did something wrong and unneeded in the care of this mare and foal with these procedures.

    Thank you for your responses.....I'm at my wits end.



  2. #2
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    Oct. 23, 2005
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    Manheim, Pa.
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    Default

    You absolutely did the right thing. I am a professional in the business of foaling mares and it is necessary. It is quite sad that this person is puttng a dollar value on the health of the mare and her foal. I feel bad that this foal even has to go to some one like that. She has a healthy live mare and foal because of you.....stick to your guns, you wll have no problem provng your case. The pre foaling vaccines protected your mare and gave the foal those antibodies against West Nile, rabes tetnus etc. and the IGg made sure the foal got what was needed from the colostrum. If you would not have done this and the foal died you would have been blamed for not doing it!



  3. #3
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    Default

    Sounds like normal expenses to me. If you had not done them, and something went wrong--how would that have gone?

    The only thing I would have done differently would have been buy the pre-foaling vaccines and give them myself to save money.

    Did you give the PneumoBort shots during the pregnancy?
    Windswept Stables-Specializing in Ponies
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  4. #4
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    Apr. 29, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windswept Stable View Post
    Sounds like normal expenses to me. If you had not done them, and something went wrong--how would that have gone?
    Exactly. You know if something had gone wrong that you would be paying!
    Holly
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  5. #5
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    Jan. 13, 2003
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    This is standard Vet care. And I feel it's a good thing you had the Vet administer the shots so they are documented. Also WNV is not supposed to be dispensed by anyone but a Vet. The exam and IGG on the foal is also the recommended care for a newborn foal. I cringe to think what kind of care she intends to give this foal when she has it in her care after weaning. I would definitely not allow the foal to leave until the costs are reimbursed.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  6. #6
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    Default

    Those are absolutely legitimate and normal expenses. A breeder who would skip either is foolhardy.



  7. #7
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    Dec. 1, 2007
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    Gettysburg, PA
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    Default

    Ditto with what the others said. I would consider that necessary and normal. Maybe to appease her you could offer to split the vaccinations, since you benefit from them and would have to vaccinate the mare regardless of pregnancy.
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  8. #8
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    Feb. 8, 2002
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    Absolutely necessary, but I'm wondering why they are her responsibility. I would've just chocked them up to, "hey, I'm getting a free horse!"



  9. #9
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    Dec. 1, 2002
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    Mid-MI
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    Um, free? The OP was responsible for maintaining the pregnant mare through her pregnancy- the breeder was the one getting the free deal. We all know the cost of keeping a horse (boarding, feed, farrier, etc.) is much higher than the cost of buying (in most cases).
    I may have been away for a while, but I'm not gone yet!

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
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    I opened this thread expecting to see someone that called the vet for all kinds of un-needed "worrywart" issues. Instead, I find it is about the most basic requirements. Some breeders are comfortable doing pre-foaling vaccines, IgG, and mare and placenta checks themselves, but I would NEVER do that on someone else's foal. These things are NOT optional - EVER, and no one should feel required to perform veterinary medicine on someone else's horse.



  11. #11
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    May. 15, 2003
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    northern California
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsetales View Post
    Ditto with what the others said. I would consider that necessary and normal. Maybe to appease her you could offer to split the vaccinations, since you benefit from them and would have to vaccinate the mare regardless of pregnancy.
    Yes, that's what I was thinking and it would show an effort on your side and hopefully she will be then tempted to act likewise and things will go smooth from here on out! You are getting her mare, she is getting the foal. It would be good to stay on friendly terms!
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  12. #12
    Anywhere_but_here Guest

    Default I hear what all of you are saying.....

    ....but to be honest, I haven't given all the facts in this situation as I don't want them to sound inflammatory as I am only trying to ascertain what is basically being confirmed by all of you.

    Are these basic procedures legitimate and necessary and not frivolous as she is claiming them to be?

    Let me just say that the mare was not in the best of condition when received when I received her, and leave it at that. If I were to bring in other details, it might muddle the issue and get everyone off on the wrong tangents.

    Right now, I'm just wanting the original questions answered.

    As to negotiating something, this issue got so bad and so ugly so fast, any kind of negotiation would appear to be "weakness" on my part and I believe she would only fight me harder.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2003
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    Default

    Completely normal expenses. Nothing frivolous about them.

    Let me just say that the mare was not in the best of condition when received when I received her, and leave it at that.
    If the mare wasn't in good condition when you recieved her, is the foal going to be well cared for? Does she know how to preoperly feed a growing youngster? Will he recieved his vaccines/deworming/trims/etc as he should? Any chance you could talk her into signing them both over to you or buying them for a small fee & then finding a good home for the baby if he's not quite what you're looking for? I wouldn't let a youngester go back to place where he may not be well cared for.



  14. #14
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    Jul. 17, 2002
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    I had a vet years ago tell me an IgG was unnecessary so I took her advice. Mare had streamed out milk prior to foaling. Foal went septic in the first week and the hospital bill was $3800.



  15. #15
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    Apr. 8, 2005
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    I don't do a new foal exam on my own babies unless something wasn't textbook during delivery. However, if someone foaled out a mare for me- I wouldn't hesitate to pay the bill for this charge.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakeytails View Post
    I don't do a new foal exam on my own babies unless something wasn't textbook during delivery. However, if someone foaled out a mare for me- I wouldn't hesitate to pay the bill for this charge.
    Your own being the key word there---if something goes wrong--you have no one to blame but yourself. Totally agree with being willing to pay if someone else foals it out for you.
    Personally, I like to foal my own out--and I always have them checked and always have the IGg done... It has been low once or twice when I was totally NOT expecting it to be.
    You never know.
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  17. #17
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    If the owner is being completely obstinate, you could get the vet and perhaps one or two others to give you a statement that this would be considered routine and normal mare/foal care.
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  18. #18
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    Totally routine, totally normal fees. Something that every mare owner can expect to do.
    Frankly I think this is just plain SILLY for her to question these costs.
    Last edited by Sugarbrook; Jul. 4, 2008 at 02:38 PM. Reason: more to say!!
    Sandy
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  19. #19
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    Jan. 13, 2003
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    Shakeytails -your seem to presume that if the birth was normal the IGG will be over 800 -that isn't always the case. Taking the risk of having a foal witout passive transfer ends up being a lot more expensive than the $25 IGG test. In the world of horse breeding the IGG snap test has been a major breakthrough in evaluating the health of a newborn foal.
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  20. #20
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    Apr. 14, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
    I opened this thread expecting to see someone that called the vet for all kinds of un-needed "worrywart" issues. Instead, I find it is about the most basic requirements.
    Ditto! I read the charges and then thought, wait, where are the frivolous charges?? I was expecting to see some frivolous charges, but I only saw the minimum required when having a foal! The only thing I will say is that I am giving a foal from one of my mares this year to my sister. She is paying all the "foaling" expenses. She is definitely paying for the post-foaling vet visit and IgG, but I am paying for the pre-foaling shots. It is my mare and I would have given her these vaccines whether she was in foal or not. My sister offered to pay, but I declined. So, this could be a point the owner is making. If you are leasing the mare, then the vaccines would need to be given as part of the mare's care whether she was in foal or not (I'm not talking about the pneumabort here, just the pre-foaling vaccines). And, just playing devil's advocate for you, to me there is no question that the foal check up (heart beat, eyes, umbilical stump, overall assessment) and IgG test, placenta exam and mare exam are all necessary. Are there any other charges associated with that bill that the owner thinks are unnecessary? Maybe the charges are unusually high? My vet bill for this visit is usually $250 including farm call and sometimes emergency fee (grr...) if they have to come after hours because they were already booked.

    Good luck. Leasing and sharing (one gets mare, one gets foal) are touchy situations.



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