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  1. #1481
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default DD yesterday

    Hi everyone,

    Well I finally double dosed my Percheron cross yesterday - waiting excitedly to see what happens. I've noticed this morning some of the lumps seem softer - he also has the runs - but so far itching at same frequency.

    I'm in Australia so would also be interested to hear from any other Aussies out there!

    Also what worming schedule is recommended - it probably says in this thread but I'm still trying to find it!



  2. #1482
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    If he has the runs from it, most likely he had quite a load
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #1483
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    If he has the runs from it, most likely he had quite a load

    Oh No!!! I thought it may have been due just to the drugs in the wormer!! Well, I will certainly keep an eye on him. Today he didn't seem so itchy and his tail not so full of dandruff - will keep my fingers crossed!

    Cheers!



  4. #1484
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2012
    Location
    Coastal NC
    Posts
    1,011

    Default

    As with everyone else I have been absolutely fascinated and creeped out by this thread. Just brought home a new horse and she was not in great condition by my standards at that time. As soon as she started shedding and the bugs came out I noticed her beginning to itch and lose hair around her neck, stomach, girth area and flanks.
    Originally, I suspected sweet itch but the location of the affected areas was not quite the same. She is not really digging at her mane and tail and nothing on her back. I then found this thread and have tried the first DD (keeping my fingers crossed).
    However, during my research I also found numerous articles referring to the benefits of flax seed for horses with skin allergies. Have any of y'all (yes from the south where bugs are awful) tried flax seed in conjunction with the equimax/ivermectin?? I think I will try it on all three of mine.



  5. #1485
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    Any kind of nutritonal support is helpful of course. But in the end, if you kill the offenders and the horses immune system is functioning correctly, you should be a no-itch zone. I find quality mineral supplementation to be the most important factor in maintaining good health after you kill all the buggers.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #1486
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default

    I have spent a fortune on different things - I use a website where you enter the horses detail and diet and you can then work out what your horse needs or what needs to be decreased. I haven't mentioned the name of the site as I'm not sure if you are allowed to on this forum!! I also found a good mineral supplement. I have had his hair tested, used herbal supplements, added black sunflower seeds, different oils etc. etc. but there is no difference! I had the vet out who took a skin sample for lice (nothing) but advised to treat them anyway (which i did)! I keep this horse covered which helps a lot and apply an insecticide to him regularly. In fact I spend most of my time just trying to keep up with his itchiness!!

    So this is day 3 after the first DD - at present the horses haven't come up for their morning feed but I will report in here any changes!!!!


    Cheers!



  7. #1487
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default A Summary of this Thread

    Phew! I've spent most of today reading the whole thread. Let's hope my brain can take it all in. This is how I summarize it in very general terms:

    To treat a horse with NTW - DD Equimax - then 14 days later DD Equimax again. If there is still a problem DD again at 21 days. Then follow with your regular worming routine but you can add monthly Ivermectin?????

    You will be killing off the juveniles - not the adults - which can live for approx. 10 years.

    Horses which have been diagnosed with Queensland (Sweet) Itch MAY in fact have a NTW (neck threadworm) infestation which is actually causing the itch - or adding to it.

    These worms are spread by midges.

    They do not invade the gut - but take up residence under the skin, in joints etc. Telltale signs could be lumps and bumps - particularly on the neck, withers, midline. A horse may be lame due to these worms. They also reside in the head area - causing itching, and sometimes eye problems.

    Equimax has been found to be the best wormer to use for this treatment.

    After treatment the horse may get worse before it gets better - increase in scratching etc. These are the young worms dying off.

    Not all horses will show symptoms - some may not be particularly sensitive to them.

    This idea is not well known in veterinary circles, but unofficial trials have been performed by Little D.

    ChocoMare has compiled a list of results from cases reported in this thread.

    There is one reported death in this thread - but not necessarily from the DD of Equimax. The horse also had other issues.

    Always consult your vet if in doubt - these results are anecdotal!


    PS. happy to report - Saadi has stopped rubbing his tail! - Day 3 of first DD - fingers crossed!

    I've typed this summary out as it helps me to remember - but PLEASE - all you worm experts - add to the summary!!!

    Cheers!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #1488
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2009
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ozhorses View Post
    This idea is not well known in veterinary circles, but unofficial trials have been performed by Little D.
    I wouldn't say this idea is not well known in veterinary medicine, I'd say it's dismissed for the more practical standard treatment (more frequent use of normal dose ivermectin/Equimax).

    I agree, at the practitioner level, many vets do not consider onchocerciasis as a likely contributor to itchy horses, and few vets offer or are prepared to skin biopsy to confirm. I believe it should always be considered due to its link to uveitis.

    From what I've read, the itching is due to a hypersensitity (i.e. allergic response) to the larva of the worm. There are 3 variants of the parasite however the only one common in North America does not invade the tendons. I'm not a Vet, but the Vet textbook I've got states appx. 85% of horses are infected in many areas of the US (where gnats are prevalent I suppose - and no supporting research is offered so I don't know which study they're quoting from). Most horses have no problem.

    The parasite has a short cycle to maturity but a very long life as an adult.

    A normal dose of ivermectin is just as lethal to the larva as a double dose and a double dose does not kill the adults.

    I personally would not frequently and casually double dose with wormer without more science (and a vet) behind it. The cumulative effects to the kidneys and liver have not been assessed. For me, a better approach is to manage the parasite and the allergy to protect the long-term wellness of the horse. This is one of those things that can't be "cured" due to constant re-exposure to the parasite and the allergic nature of the affliction.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #1489
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    It has a reference to it on most dewormer boxes now, and that is relatively new. I blame it on COTH
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  10. #1490
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2006
    Location
    Seabeck - the soggy peninsula
    Posts
    3,649

    Default

    I do not know how to find this other than the University of Washington's basement papers, but there is a study done that was published in a British veterinary journal of horses in Iceland who were suffering from sweet itch, some in the herd were affected some were not. They found that the ones who suffered were low in copper and when supplemented were either greatly helped or cured. I would have the blood checked on these horses. Dynamite makes a mineral/clay supplement that I used with great success on one horse that I worked with, that and giving her a bath with Equiss sp? (black bottle) fungal bath. Her skin was hard caked with it, skin was raised and ridged, she did get better within a month. I also had her Power Pac dewormed by the vet.
    Last edited by Calamber; Apr. 1, 2012 at 06:02 PM.
    "When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters, one represents danger, the other represents opportunity."

    John F Kennedy


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #1491
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2012
    Location
    Coastal NC
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    1,011

    Default

    Today is day 7 and my mare is showing improvement. She is not nearly as sensitive to the touch and some of the almost bold spots are much improved. She does seen to have a lot of dandruff/flaking. We did not have all the lumps and bumps that many have seen after the DD. She only had one pea sized lump which is starting to flatten. I am pleased with the results so far and will DD again on day 14.

    I would note that she came from a farm where there are roughly 30 horses turned out with no regular, if any worming. She is almost 5 so I am sure that getting on a consistent worming schedule will make a tremendous difference. One of my other horses came from the same place with no apparent problems but I did get her when she was only two and I have always used ivermectin in my regular worming schedule.

    Rbow may very well be correct about the single does being enough. I would be afraid to double dose too often and only used ivermectin for the DD not the equimax (although I have it on hand if necessary.)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #1492
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
    Location
    Fort Myers, Florida
    Posts
    2,667

    Default

    I DD twice! He now has a shiny dappled coat but still itching!

    I have to add that I live in a wet, boggy type area in Fl.

    After DD, and using antihistamine without complete results ..I resorted to the 2 week DEX regime hoping to break the cycle.

    At least I have confirmed that he has Sweet Itch and not NTW.

    He presently has regrown hair on the sides of face and most of the belly but still itching the fool out of that poor tail! All the hair is now gone at the top 6".

    So thats my report...wish it had been NTW I'm thinking.
    "My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sunlight and nicker to me in the night"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #1493
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2012
    Location
    Coastal NC
    Posts
    1,011

    Default

    Birdsong if it appears that sweet itch is part of the problem, if not the whole problem, you may want to try supplementing him with ground flax seed. There appears to be a significant amount of research out there suggesting that flax seed helps naturally reduce the skins allergic reaction to gnat bites as well as other irritants (a layman's summary of the research.)

    I started the flax seed shortly before I did the DD and am seeing improvement but I cannot say which is the cause of the improvement. I have not done the second DD yet. From all that I read on the flax seed, I started all of mine on it. Along with my problem mare, I have a black gelding that always has dandruff and somewhat sensitive skin.

    Good Luck



  14. #1494
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2006
    Location
    Spooner, WI
    Posts
    2,345

    Default

    I never posted my story. Four year old, born and raised here, had not yet left the property. Itchy lesions on his neck, chest and shoulders, every season for a year. Read this thread. DD and 2 weeks DD again. Gone! Never had it before and haven't had it since.



  15. #1495
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, Australia
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I never posted my story. Four year old, born and raised here, had not yet left the property. Itchy lesions on his neck, chest and shoulders, every season for a year. Read this thread. DD and 2 weeks DD again. Gone! Never had it before and haven't had it since.
    Oh that's great! I have only DD once so far. My horse's tail is great but face still so itchy even though he wears a fly mask with ears. I'm looking forward to seeing more results from the second DD!



  16. #1496
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2012
    Location
    Coastal NC
    Posts
    1,011

    Default

    After the first dose of DD my new mare showed significant improvement. She has not been digging as much, hair is growing back and crusties on her stomach are going away. I did the second DD this morning and she is ill as a snake this afternoon. She appears to be pretty itchy and sensitive to the touch this afternoon. I noticed she kept biting at her legs in the stall this evening.

    I am hoping I see another wave of improvement. I have also put her on flax seed to help her skin and coat with the new growth. Keeping my fingers crossed.



  17. #1497
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    Killllll them
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  18. #1498
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    Killllll them


    I prefer "Permanently deter."
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  19. #1499
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2006
    Posts
    2,058

    Default

    Alls I know is last summer I DD'd, then DD again, then gave a tube of generic ivermectin at the first sign of tail or mane rubbing, which meant a tube every 2-3 weeks when it was hot and damp, and maybe once a month to six weeks when it was hot and dry. Did that from first itchy spell in the spring, until first frost in the fall. Sadie kept her mane and tail last year. She has had her Equimax and I am poised to continue the ivermectin on an as needed basis again this summer.

    It might not be NTW, it might not be sweet itch, it might be any blessed thing under the sun, but a VET recommended monthly ivermectin for her years ago, for the ITCHING, postulating it was NTW, and she got better then. Years when I havent been prompt in starting and consistent in maintaining the regimen, she's lost her mane and tail.
    So, well, duh.

    So, choco, enjoying the spring weather now that we've already had a month of summer?



  20. #1500
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2009
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jeano View Post
    a VET recommended monthly ivermectin for her years ago, for the ITCHING, postulating it was NTW, and she got better then. Years when I havent been prompt in starting and consistent in maintaining the regimen, she's lost her mane and tail.
    So, well, duh.
    Yes. If the problem is NTW, more frequent use of a normal dose (monthly is recommended) would be just as effective as the DD Equimax every 4 weeks.

    It would probably be required for the life of the horse as although you would eventually kill off the adults in 10 years or so, once you stop the horse will likely be reinfected.

    Many who suspect NTW allergies, note that the horse seems better able to handle them during the winter months when other allergies aren't stressing the system. I return to the strategic worming guidelines in the winter months to give the horse's system a break.



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