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  1. #1321
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    I would just like to mention that all over this thread are the words CONSULT YOUR VETERINARIAN. Chocomare says it all the time, JB says it all the time, I say it all the time..

    and just to CYA a little more, I've now got it in my signature line!

    So if something about this thread gets your panties wadded up and you think everyone needs to contact their vet.. please note.. it has been advised to do so, over and over again...

    and I, for one, am tired of typing it!
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  2. #1322
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 1999
    Location
    Libertyville, IL USA
    Posts
    4,108

    Default

    Sorry, did I miss a page. You can PM me if you like. I am a bit obtuse.



  3. #1323
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gry2Yng View Post
    Sorry, did I miss a page. You can PM me if you like. I am a bit obtuse.
    It was not directed towards you, sorry! More like a PSA about the fact that we do indeed advise people to talk to their vet and the amount of CYA that is starting to be required around here these days is a bit discouraging.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  4. #1324
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,871

    Default

    EqT: Preach it sista!

    Winkybear: So glad to hear such a glowing report on your boy.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  5. #1325
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 1999
    Location
    Libertyville, IL USA
    Posts
    4,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    It was not directed towards you, sorry! More like a PSA about the fact that we do indeed advise people to talk to their vet and the amount of CYA that is starting to be required around here these days is a bit discouraging.
    No worries. I didn't think it was directed at me, it just seemed a bit out of the blue. I had noticed the addition of your sig CYA. I suppose there is a lawyer out there somewhere who thinks the board can be sued.



  6. #1326
    Ulrika Guest

    Default

    I just want to send a Thank you from the other side of the atlantic;-)
    I live in Sweden, and our veterinarians are often good but in some instances they choose to keep their eyes closed! Saying for instance that Neck threadworms does not exist any longer in Sweden etc... Baaah

    BUT I had a little irish cob mare that had sweet itch, lumps like elephantiasis on her pasterns and was tender on her chest with flaking skin.... I tried EVERYTHING as so many others here and then I found this thread and Choco Mares wonderful advice;-) I am so happy that in the end I at least succeeded in giving her relief from her permanent itches, her swellings on the pasterns got better, no more mud fever and she was plainly relieved after the double dose treatment!

    Ulrika and Jaz from Sweden



  7. #1327
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,871

    Default

    Yay Ulrika! Glad you gave it a try and brought relief to your horse. Now you'll have to be the ambassador to Sweden and spread the word there about NTW's
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  8. #1328
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
    Posts
    15,232

    Default

    Has anyone revisited the connection of NTW and EPSA/DSLD?

    I know it was mentioned early on but reading the latest research on EPSA (no longer considered just a suspensory issue and certainly not just a paso issue)

    There seems to be some pretty wicked connections.

    In each case there is damage to the connective tissue-normally found in ligaments and tendons, often the suspensory, often the nuchal ligament.

    There is a connection to rapid onset bug allergies and reactions to fly sprays-sound familiar?

    There are also cases where the eyes are impacted.

    In other words, any place where there is connective tissue, the NTW can migrate in and destroy-and EPSA is a degeneration of connective tissue.

    Seems very close in presentation to ignore the possibility?



  9. #1329
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Has anyone revisited the connection of NTW and EPSA/DSLD?

    I know it was mentioned early on but reading the latest research on EPSA (no longer considered just a suspensory issue and certainly not just a paso issue)

    There seems to be some pretty wicked connections.

    In each case there is damage to the connective tissue-normally found in ligaments and tendons, often the suspensory, often the nuchal ligament.

    There is a connection to rapid onset bug allergies and reactions to fly sprays-sound familiar?

    There are also cases where the eyes are impacted.

    In other words, any place where there is connective tissue, the NTW can migrate in and destroy-and EPSA is a degeneration of connective tissue.

    Seems very close in presentation to ignore the possibility?
    Quite.

    Could you provide links to the EPSA stuff you've read? I'd like to take a peek and pass it on to DJ. Thanks
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  10. #1330
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
    Posts
    15,232



  11. #1331
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
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    Default

    Hmmmm, the 2nd one had something to strike me: the study was done at UGA with donated horses. Could one safely "assume" that the donated horses were from the southeast?

    Make me go "hmmmmmmmm"
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  12. #1332
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
    Posts
    15,232

    Default

    I don't know if I would assume that.

    I just spoke with Dr Mero and she is located in California.

    I would think at this point, horses have been observed across the country.

    I also know Dr Kellon has a yahoo group on EPSA/DLSD as well...there may be more information.

    OR, I wonder if somehow some horses have genetic weakness in the connective tissue and then they are prone to all these things-more susceptible to NTW or EPSA, for example.

    I guess anything that targets the connective tissue would present with similar symptoms.

    I wonder if any of the horses (in either 'disease) have been documented to suffer from low grade lammie as well.



  13. #1333
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    72

    Smile Onchocerca

    I was given a pony in July with large patches of long winter hair that you could not even pull out. Tender, over withers and back. Not the normal, small raised black rubbery looking lumps, just long winter hair, in patches, in July Oklahoma, 100 in the shade. I have found that having the vet dose the horse with INJECTABLE Ivermectin, cleared up the problem. You do need to be carefull, a quick die-off of a large numbers can cause symptoms that look like uveitis. We followed up 8 weeks with another injectable dose, then back to our regular worming schedule. The pea sized areas opended and drained and dried up quickly. No further problems. I have the vet give the injection because you are going off-label and it may void your insurance without the vet giving the shot. The problem with the injectable was not with the product, but the agent used and the fact that not all people are carefull in using injectable agents. Has the added benefit of killing off any other external bugs. Good luck, Jay



  14. #1334
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2010
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    29

    Default All I can say is WOW

    I have just spent the last few days reading this ENTIRE thread. All I can say is WOW. It amazes me that after 30 years of horse ownership that this has never been brought up! How is that?? I am on my second horse which has been diagnosed with "Summer Itch" (as we call it down here). Protocol has been to treat with Dex and medicated shampoos, salves, etc. - I'm sure you all know the routine. I have owned my current gelding for 3 years, and can't tell you how bad this horse has been plagued with the itchies. He is the worst in the summer (we really don't get a "winter" in South Florida), but he ALWAYS has what I thought were "bug bites" on his shoulders and neck. He also has hard "nodules" on his lower legs that he will itch with his teeth - therefore causing constant sores. In fact, I've wondered if some of the hard crusties and nodules on his lower front legs were scar tissue. in addition, he is pretty much bald and scabby/scaley on his belly from between his front legs to his sheath. His face will sometimes lose almost all of it's hair. He has white patches ALL over his neck, face, chest and front legs (he is dark bay). I thought when I bought him initially, that the patches were from either roaning out (not the case) or perhaps injuries, but it has become apparent that he itched so bad that he did this much damage. He is worse in the summer, but maintains the "bug bites" on his shoulders, neck and legs all year round. His belly also stays bald and crusty all year as well. He also has what i would call "dry skin" all year as well. There are none of these bites or nodules on his back, hind end, or hind legs - which NEVER dawned on me how weird that was. I mean, if he has an allergy to bug bites, why is it not ALL over him?? Makes you wonder!! And makes my wonder why I never even thought about that until now.

    When I first started reading this thread, I was almost in tears - could this be it?? I truly HOPE so!! Having said that, I have already ordered the EM but am very scared about DD him. He is the most sensitive horse I have ever owned. And when I say "sensitive" I mean to itching and pain - NOT his stomach.

    My concern lies with the die-off of any parasites and how he will physically react to that. Perhaps I am being overly concerned, but I commonly refer to this horse as: My Poor Sensitive Boy.

    More backgound info is that he had some mild laminitis in one front hoof. I have taken him barefoot over the last year - his heels were 15 years contracted, and have not opened up (part of which is my fault for not providing better footing - all sugar sand here), and I have of course been battling thrush - whole other story. He has 24 hour turn out with access to shelter as he chooses. I cannot say that i've been the best with frequest deworming, as I was actually going to go the holistic route - not so much anymore!

    Anyway, should I dose with reg Ivermectin 1st and then do the DD of EM? He had a dose (prob underdosed) 90 days ago with Ivermectin. What formula should I be using to calculate his weight?

    ANY feedback would be much appreciated. I am going to take pics of his belly and see if I can get pics of his "bites" and the crud on his legs - may be hard to do as he has his winter coat.

    Thank you all so much and I can't tell you HAPPY I am that I was referred to this thread!!!
    Heather

    "My Barn, My Rules"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #1335
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2010
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    29

    Default Has this thread lost it's luster?

    Okay... I can hear the crickets..LOL! I know this thread has been going on for a long time... but I was wondering if those of you experienced with this issue could take a quick read of my situation and offer your very valued advice?

    Many thanks for your time!
    Heather

    "My Barn, My Rules"



  16. #1336
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,871

    Default

    Sorry..have been off COTH a few days.

    Since you have obvious signs/symptoms of NTW's, just do it: DD Equimax Day 1 and DD Equimax Day 14.

    Since you've been a good egg and read this whole thread, you know to watch for increased itching, etc. Just offer supportive external care.

    Feel free to DD again on Day 28.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  17. #1337
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2007
    Location
    Prospect, Ky.
    Posts
    693

    Thumbs up

    I have been following this closely and have DD all of my horses after success by posters.

    Any number of dermal problems were cleared up with DD and repeat in 14 days. But the most significant results were for two separate problems:contracted tendons in a foal and clearing up an eye problem in a pony.

    I'd never had any problems to speak of until I moved to a farm that had been used to layup TB in the SE. In both cases, the vets were only mildly impressed with the results. Is it that difficult to see how much trouble these worms can be?

    The foal's problem cleared in less that 2 weeks after treatment and the pony's eye is nearly clear- after being obviously clouded over .


    I am not sure if I should routinely DD once a year or not as prophilaxis -what do you say?

    Peg
    Fleur de Lis Hanoverians



  18. #1338
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Has anyone revisited the connection of NTW and EPSA/DSLD?

    I know it was mentioned early on but reading the latest research on EPSA (no longer considered just a suspensory issue and certainly not just a paso issue)

    There seems to be some pretty wicked connections.

    In each case there is damage to the connective tissue-normally found in ligaments and tendons, often the suspensory, often the nuchal ligament.

    There is a connection to rapid onset bug allergies and reactions to fly sprays-sound familiar?

    There are also cases where the eyes are impacted.

    In other words, any place where there is connective tissue, the NTW can migrate in and destroy-and EPSA is a degeneration of connective tissue.

    Seems very close in presentation to ignore the possibility?
    Wouldn't they find evidence of the NTW when the vets do the postmortem examination?



  19. #1339
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2008
    Posts
    36

    Default postmortem results for ntw

    the only way to diagnose these is to get a slab of the meat it then has to be pulverized spun down etc. and if you miss the piece of tissue with the worms in it you get a negative diagnosis. so that said when i thorughly looked into this i was told by my vet friends to forget it.
    I was a speaker a few years ago for the pre-med students for vet school. the talk was at georgia state university. I told them i was planting a seed. refering to giving them information about ntw's. so in a few more years some of these guys maybe graduating and you may see some changes in our vets here in the US. who knows



  20. #1340
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    There has already been change in that department thank God.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



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