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  1. #1
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    Default Broodmare Sires

    You often see studs refered to as great broodmare sires. What characteristics make a stallion a broodmare sire? Who are some of the greats?
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  2. #2
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    I think Carentino is a great broodmare sire; his quality of mare's is indicative of this, but much removed from that, I can't say what makes a great broodmare sire.

    I always wonder about that statement, but I guess it comes down to the fact that the best offspring are consistently mares. There best qualities are somehow related to that X chromosome....who knows...Does make me wonder if prehaps they are less prepotent then the great mares they are bred to....

    I can't wait to hear the responses though!



  3. #3
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    It's a stallion that has a propensity for producing really good fillies/mares and their foals are very good. I don't know what warmbloods that might apply to but in Thoroughbreds, two that come to mind are Secretariat and Graustark. Their sons that went to stud were not as remarkable as one might expect, but their daughters were wonderful producers. Some stallions might go either way or are sires of sires -- that might seem to apply to Sandro Hit and Donnerhall in the warmbloods. Thoroughbred sire of sires would be such as Nasrullah, Bold Ruler, Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector. You usually don't see the pattern until the stallion is older because it has to develop and become evident through their children and grandchildren as they are mature enough to reproduce. It also is usually reserved for those stallions that are bred a good bit to really bring it out. So, who knows which ones "fall through the cracks". JMHO
    Pennyg



  4. #4
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    What the term "broodmare sire" means to me is that the stallion's direct offspring, both mares and stallions/geldings did not show the talent themselves, but it is showing up in the daughter's offspring. I first heard the term used for Secretariat, when his offspring, both colts and fillies were not seeming to live up to the expectations. Then along came his daughters offspring.

    This is something that may not show up in warmblood breeding, as breeders usually breed what "appears to be their best", and ride the rest. If the "talent" skips a generation, the daughters may not be bred in the numbers to see a patern.
    Last edited by Fairview Horse Center; Jul. 1, 2008 at 09:31 PM.



  5. #5
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    For me it means a stallion who's daughters seem to produce better than the sons. Ie the stallion hasn't produced many liscenced stallions ect but has produced mares who are very good all around producers. Matcho AA is one that I always have thought of as a great broodmare sire for Hanover.
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  6. #6
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    I'm not an expert by any means, but I like seeing De Niro, Rubinstein, and Rohdiamant as broodmare sires. I have seen a lot of excellent foals out of mares by them.

    Caitlin
    Caitlin
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  7. #7
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    Roman was used quite a bit in Holstein. In fact, Special Event was recently the subject of comment on this bb. He is by Final Pool o/o Silver Lining. Silver Lining's grand dad was Roman. A look at his progeny shows almost all fillies - maybe three sons - as producers.
    A phenomenon that some produce better through their daughters.



  8. #8
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    Feiner Stern is said to be a good broodmare sire. I think Hohenstein is, as well, but he does have some notable sons, too. It just seems that his daughters are very good producers and tend to outproduce themselves. (and in the interest of full disclosure I have a Hohenstein mare, but she is currently in foal with her first so time will tell whether she proves my theory or not!).



  9. #9
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    My interpretation is that a broodmare sire may produce sons who become great athletes or sire approved stallions, but their daughters outperform their sons in the breeding shed.

    Capitol and Cor de la Bryere are known as "Sire of Sires," because...well, how many approved stallion sons are there between the two of them? On the other hand, Landgraf, Lord, Lavall I, Sacramento Song, Ramiro, Marlon and Corofino come to mind as great broodmare sires. This is not to say some of these sires haven't produced some good sons, but, their daughters have far outproduced their sons. For instance, Lord has some good sons, but he didn't really leave a stallion line... however, he is the dam's sire of a plethora of exceptional athletes....therefore, he is considered a "broodmare sire."
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    Roman was used quite a bit in Holstein. In fact, Special Event was recently the subject of comment on this bb. He is by Final Pool o/o Silver Lining. Silver Lining's grand dad was Roman. A look at his progeny shows almost all fillies - maybe three sons - as producers.
    A phenomenon that some produce better through their daughters.

    Roman is a great example of a broodmare sire. His daughter, Monoline, is mother to Cantus, Calvin Z and Lansing. He is dam's sire to the Holsteiner stallions Carolus I & II, Lamour, Liguster. Roman appears twice as dam's sire in the pedigree of Calido. There are others, but this is a pretty impressive list.
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    Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
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  11. #11
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    Linaro is another very good broodmare sire.
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  12. #12
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    Lungau has a reputation of being an excellent sire of broodmares. He's the damsire of Salinero, Brentina, and Contucci~ at least those come to mind immediately.

    And I second that Hohenstein daughters tend to outproduce themselves. My Hohenstein mare's first foal is a wonderful riding horse, and I'm eagerly awaiting her next foal!



  13. #13
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    Prince thatch xx too. Did he even sire any liscenced sons?
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  14. #14
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    Ramiro Z was a great dam sire, but I believe Calando I was considered the best, with 182 state premium mares (and 18 approved sons) and he went to the Games. Lord Calando has become another very good dam sire (with Calando I being in his background that's no surprise).



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by molliwog View Post
    Lungau has a reputation of being an excellent sire of broodmares. He's the damsire of Salinero, Brentina, and Contucci~ at least those come to mind immediately.
    Ditto Lungau



  16. #16
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    Goodtimes, Ahorn, Nimmerdor, Ramiro and Ferro have made super broodmare sires in Holland for sure.

    Kathy
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  17. #17
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    Default here is a published list

    Leading Dam Sires
    2006 2005 Name Studbook 2006 2005
    1 (1) Ramiro Z* Holstein 75 78
    2 (2) Landgraf I* Holstein 69 68
    3 (3) Nimmerdor* KWPN 56 51
    4 (6ex) Pilot* Westfalian 55 44
    5ex (5) Cor de la Bryère* Selle Français 47 46
    5ex (4) Uriel* Selle Français 47 47
    7 (6ex) Lord* Holstein 46 44
    8 (8) Jalisco B* Selle Français 44 40
    9 (11) Weltmeyer Hanoverian 39 35
    10 (9ex) Grand Veneur* Selle Français 38 38
    11 (9ex) Almé Z* Selle Français 37 38
    12 (12) Calypso II Holstein 35 34
    13 (14ex) Pik Bube Hanoverian 32 29
    14ex (13) Donnerhall* Oldenburg 31 30
    14ex (14ex) Laudanum* Selle Français 31 29
    16ex (18ex) Calypso I Holstein 28 26
    16ex (21) Landadel* Holstein 28 25
    16ex (18ex) Voltaire* Hanoverian 28 26
    19ex (16ex) Capitol I* Holstein 27 27
    19ex (26ex) Contender Holstein 27 22
    19ex (18ex) Grannus* Hanoverian 27 26
    22ex (16ex) Quastor* Selle Français 26 27
    22ex (23ex) Rubinstein* Westfalian 26 23
    24 (23ex) Ahorn* KWPN 25 22
    25 (22) Night and Day* Selle Français 24 24
    26ex (31ex) Furioso II* Selle Français 23 19
    26ex nc Goldstern Hanoverian 23 nc
    26ex (23ex) Lucky Boy* KWPN 23 23
    26ex (30) Matcho AA Anglo Arab 23 20
    26ex (29) Muguet du Manoir* Selle Français 23 21
    31ex (26ex) Amor Hanoverian 22 22
    31ex (26ex) Caletto I Holstein 22 22
    33 (31ex) Quidam de Revel Selle Français 20 19
    34ex (33ex) Elf III* Selle Français 19 18
    34ex (33ex) Wendekreis* Hanoverian 19 18


    Col. 1 – 2006 Rank; Col. 2 – 2005 Rank;
    * – Deceased (information may not be 100% accurate)
    Col. 5 – Number of dam sires approved in WBFSH studbooks in 2006 (out of 6,239 recorded
    in BN base).
    Col. 6 – Number of dam sires approved in WBFSH studbooks in 2005 (out of 5,714 recorded
    in BN base).



    What I sort of noticed is that the list contains many of the same stallions also found on Sire of Sires lists.

    I swear I formatted this but apparently it didn't work. Sorry!
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  18. #18
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    Beach Boy is a famous brood mare sire - one such example is Arko III - is out of a Beach Boy mare.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponygirl View Post
    Leading Dam Sires
    ...
    What I sort of noticed is that the list contains many of the same stallions also found on Sire of Sires lists.
    This is what I expected to see on a warmblood "sire" list. These stallions are sires of both performance horses too.

    When I see a label of "Broodmare sire" it seems like it is more meaning, that IS the stallion's "niche".



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