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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
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    Default good buyers look for particular horses

    I'm a buyer not a breeder. When I went out looking for horses 7 years ago, I looked at hundreds of horses in georgia and florida and SC. I wanted an imported wb, and I wanted color, but I looked at quarter horses and paints and tbs and everything else. People and friends and sellers and all directed me to every type of horse and I looked and tried them out. despite my saying over 16 hands, pinto, imported, wb, jumper, I looked at short horses, tall horses, chestnut horses, horses that were so muscle bound they couldn't have jumped cross rails, etc.
    of course I also bought an ottb mare, bay, 16 hands, who was just as good as my wb.
    and I had researched for years, while living in the big city, and read all the coth ads, kept getting the mag even though my horses were long deceased, so I knew what I should be paying for a good young horse who was showing. and I got all the other mags, including tb mags so I knew what a qh or tb or whatever should cost.
    so I didn't offer a pittance for my boy, and I paid a huge amt for him, like I tell people, he cost more than most expensive cars.
    so no buyer's remorse, ever, on either the tb mare or the wb.
    buyers who know what they want and who buy the magazines and want a certain horse are out there looking.
    and I do have friends who are used to buying 3 horses for 1000 and they went to one barn I was boarding at and offered the BO 500 for one of her foals, and she was insulted. but my friends are used to buying and selling cheap horses and have no idea what good horses cost.
    of course my purchases were over 7 years ago, before 9/11 which caused some economic cutbacks, and now the economy is so bad, I'm not buying anything else. mediocre horses are being given away here in georgia now. and good horses aren't selling.
    but if I can sell our building on river st, I'll be looking for more of those ottb mares who are so smart.
    so I guess we "buyers" don't have the money to support a horse now. it's always not the cost of the horse, but the upkeep that concerns me now. A 100,000 horse and a 700 horse cost the same to board and feed and vet bills etc.
    so we buyers are waiting. I've turned down free horses, young ones, cause I didn't want to support them for lifetime. Don't know what I'll do if someone shows up with the smart spirited tb mare. thank God I haven't found one again.
    but when you run ads, or we buyers call you, please don't tell us the height, etc. and abilities of the horse are what we want, and when we get there to try out the horses, they are shorter, older, and have not been groomed, tangles in manes and tails, etc. I've driven all around atlanta answering ads and found that horses were not as advertised or as stated in my phone conversations with the sellers, who then got mad at me for saying "not what I wanted" when I should have said why did they lie to me. I didn't pay 15000 for a tb gelding who was 3 inches smaller than advertised, shaggy coated in may in georgia, and standing in knee deep mud with 2 old broodmares eaten up with rain rot.
    and I looked at breeders and dealers, and ended up buying from an importer.
    Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Jun. 26, 2008 at 07:13 PM. Reason: add and add and add again



  2. #22
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, Florida
    Posts
    3,610

    Default

    I just bought a new eventer for my daughter..paid $1500 and they were originally asking $25000. No one came to look at the horse! And he has gone intermediate level. I got him for the board bill, the owner just wanted him gone!
    Lori T
    www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com
    www.facebook.com/LTEquine for product updates on the lines I rep



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2006
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    315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
    Question: why didn't you pick up the phone and call?
    If you are looking for a $15,000 greenie - would you call a farm that appears to have not updated their website in 3 years? Nope. Appearance is everything in the horse business - whether we like it or not.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2001
    Location
    VA
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    11,903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    but when you run ads, or we buyers call you, please don't tell us the height, etc. and abilities of the horse are what we want, and when we get there to try out the horses, they are shorter, older, and have not been groomed, tangles in manes and tails, etc.

    I've driven all around Atlanta answering ads and found that horses were not as advertised or as stated in my phone conversations with the sellers, who then got mad at me for saying "not what I wanted" when I should have said why did they lie to me.

    I didn't pay 15000 for a tb gelding who was 3 inches smaller than advertised, shaggy coated in may in georgia, and standing in knee deep mud with 2 old broodmares eaten up with rain rot.
    Oh Lord have mercy, I don't know anyone who treats their horses like that. I guess I should thank my lucky stars, because I'd have nightmares if I did.

    I can not understand why you would have any trouble,...again, looking at the CoTH breeders directory the first person that comes to mind is Liz Hall who has lovely colored SHs. Granted she is in VA, but I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts she knows someone in GA.

    I'm wondering if you had called her in the first place if that would have made a difference?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 1999
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    5,246

    Default

    When I was shopping, breeders didn't advertise on dream horse or anything. Or rarely, I should say. The only breeder I knew of in my area was Acorn Hill because they sponsored and advertised a ton in the eventing world.
    And I'm not in the breeder's world at all. Couldn't tell you a Consul baby from a hole in the wall. But I would have liked to have seen and tried out anyone's horse, regardless. If it fit my bill, then I'm game.
    Yes, eventers don't pay. But I was willing to and actually had to dive into the breeding world and hunt down phone numbers, etc. It was a pain.
    Then there's a huge dilemma for me and why I chose not go do the uber-bred thing: the horses were too damned big! An unbroke 16.3h is not something I can handle and really don't want to be trying out drop banks on something that large.
    I would have seriously considered a lot of horses out there if I had known they existed. Like doing the mass advertising on virginiaequestrian. Yup, you're going to get the asshats and the spam from Kenya but you might actually find someone like me who isn't into breeding but wants a nice horse.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2001
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    VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tmo0hul View Post
    If you are looking for a $15,000 greenie - would you call a farm that appears to have not updated their website in 3 years?
    Yes, I would have. BUT, the first question out of my mouth would have been, "Why haven't you updated your website in three years?" There is very very little, IMHO, that does not merit a phone call.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2001
    Location
    VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    When I was shopping, breeders didn't advertise on dream horse or anything. Or rarely, I should say.
    (Hey Miss Lisa, how the heck are you???)

    And there is the conundrum, methinks. If there had been a "breeders directory" ... be honest now, would you have used it, e.g., telephoned?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 1999
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    5,246

    Default

    Hmmm, probably not to the extent I should have. I would look at their website or if they were close enough, give them a holler. But if they have a bunch of babies and not 2-3 yo, then I don't bother.
    I would give Glenhaven a holler. They seem to sell out of babies faster than they can spit them out. I'm sure it's word of mouth and they are kinda 'in' with the pony circuit.

    And I'm fine!
    How the heck are you?
    Got the name a great fence guy. Will post here.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2006
    Posts
    315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
    Yes, I would have. BUT, the first question out of my mouth would have been, "Why haven't you updated your website in three years?" There is very very little, IMHO, that does not merit a phone call.
    Why should a buyer have to work that hard? Who has time to waste calling a farm that cannot be bothered to update their listing of sale horses for 3 years? Present them with the current and correct information they need/want UP FRONT. Give them a compelling reason to call.

    I do marketing for a large TB stallion farm for a living so theoretically I know what I'm talking about...



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2001
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    VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tmo0hul View Post
    Why should a buyer have to work that hard? Who has time to waste calling a farm that cannot be bothered to update their listing of sale horses for 3 years? Present them with the current and correct information they need/want UP FRONT. Give them a compelling reason to call.

    I do marketing for a large TB stallion farm for a living so theoretically I know what I'm talking about...
    I'm a marketing person too ... although not for horses. And sorry, I don't think it's that "hard" to push buttons on a phone. Would I have phoned back 10 times? Hell no.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,049

    Default I did call VA

    Oldenburg, I did call VA, forget the farm in march2001 that advertised the part tb pinto hunter, winning on the line, etc., called that woman, but she didn't have that horse for sale. Hey I went to school in Staunton, so I love VA.
    so after scouting alpharetta and all farms, a friend who grew hay and sold all over florida took me down to Robert's barn, and he shows on A circuit and lined up some horses. well, one was unavailable cause the breeder neglected to tell Robert about a probllem (he couldn't be ridden because of a mouth injury but she had told Robert we could try him out longeing him) and one was a stud (get health ins. card out now) so I didn't want to see him, and one breeder had a cribber for sale, so Robert called his friend Roger, (after I tried out a nice tb for sale at Robert's barn, horse winning on A circuit) and Roger brought the only pinto wb on his 32 imported used horse lot and he was perfect.
    so I did call VA, and I had Robert as agent with my friend Wendi calling all over Florida, and the breeders didn't have a big pinto for sale. and I paid in full, had the money, etc., no quibbling. But I wanted a certain horse, and didn't want to settle for something under 16 hands, I'm tall, or one that didn't want to jump (Cloudy jumped hot wires and wooden paddock fences at Roberts and at other barns, loves to jump), and I had the cash in hand. so I think those people are still out there, but get turned off by bad experiences. My theory over 7yrs ago was to keep looking till I found what I wanted. Then I went out to get Cloudy a cheap qh to be his "best friend" and found old ottb mare, bay, fiery, etc., and snapped her right up, cause she was smartest girl in the world. so you (well I did) can find a great horse, my mare Callie, while looking for another one. Heck, when I saw her I said oh............., I don't want another tb, or mare, or a bay. so after following her around for 2 weeks, I gave up buying hay and taking it to her and bought her before auction. Turned down a good looking qh 16.3 (appendix?) 3 yr old to get bay ottb mare. no buyer's remorse there either.
    so to get us to go look? you need to market the horses for the people who want the type, breed, etc.. I read all the magazines, especially coth, and the ga market bulletin, not much internet in 2001, and I drove and looked.
    now I just kinda look at all ads, probably will get a canter rescue, old ottb mare bay and all, but love the wbs and would love to be able to afford more.
    with gas prices, I think web sites and the chronicle are important sales places. and shows. I went to a lot of shows.
    I went to is it your website? in williston? and it looked good today, horses look good too.
    good luck selling.
    like my Bo now cannot sell her horses, and they are nice but green, and she is looking for a nice husband horse. but she bought a horse in florida 2 years ago that has issues. So another story of buying a horse that was misrepresented.
    I loved my mare (deceased at 24 last fall) even though she came from an auction guy.
    I love my WB, listen to this. the importer who sold me Cloudy takes horses back if they don't work out. A week after I bought Cloudy i was in a tack shop in Coco Beach, and the young woman working there told me this....her friend's horse had back problems so he gave the mare away, and he went to Roger and wanted an 18 hand equitation horse. The buyer was asked if he was experienced rider and he said yes. got the horse. horse threw the guy every time he got on him. He called Roger. Roger sent his trainer over to see what was wrong, thinking the guy just couldn't ride the horse. Trainer gets on horse, horse throws trainer, trainer loads horse on trailer and tells buyer to come pick out another horse. Is that not a cool deal? I had left my horse in florida for a couple of months to make sure he had nothing wrong with him, even with ppe, I didn't want to fall in love with a horse I might have to return or put down. Made me feel great to know that seller was reputable.
    so when I finally sell the building downtown and get some $? going to go back to same agent, Robert, and same importer, and buy more.
    just like I buy my aussies from same colo. breeders for ages and ages.
    so if youget a good reputation for quality and for standing behind your horses, then you get repeat business.
    Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Jun. 26, 2008 at 03:27 PM. Reason: change



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
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    35,117

    Default

    Plus there is the mindset that a non-registered, grade horse, purchased at a very low price, is just as good as, a higher priced, well bred, registered horse.
    But that may very well be TRUE.

    Being willing to pay for the horse and not pay extra for the fact that it is papered is NOT the same as wanting something for nothing.

    ETA that all but one of my last 5 horse purchases have been from the breeder, and the one that wasn't was one I first saw when he was still at the breeder. All but one had papers. But the presence or absence of papesr had VERY LITTLE to do with my decision to purchase, or the price I was willing to pay.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,049

    Default any older bay mares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lori T View Post
    I just bought a new eventer for my daughter..paid $1500 and they were originally asking $25000. No one came to look at the horse! And he has gone intermediate level. I got him for the board bill, the owner just wanted him gone!
    oooh does that seller have any older tb mares?



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    People's Republic of MD
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    376

    Default

    I'm not a breeder (but I did contact a few as I am searching for a large for eventing). I have a dream pony. She does it all. She is athletic. She is safe (but not a plug). Got a few emails saying I am looking for A, B and C in a pony- responded promptly and politely that my pony does A, B and C with additional pics and link to video. I've noted my asking price and indicated my willingness to entertain offers a I am mostly concerned with the right home, this pony is special to me. Nothing. Is it too much to ask for an email back stating "On further reflection your price is too high?" or "Thank you, but at this time I thought I needed A, B and C, but have now decided D is what I need".

    For the one who found the $1500 eventer, why oh why does this never happen to me??



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    861

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    What about my case? Say I'm looking for an older (4 or so or even 18+) show prospect. I can take on a project if I really like the horse's personality AND the horse isn't dangerous. But I have a young horse who is a companion already and I keep all my horses for life. I have great references regarding care and keeping of my guys. However, I can't afford to pay a lot of money. I most certainly am not going to call up any of the breeders here and insult them by asking if they have a nice prospect that will nicely take me to prelim eventing or PSG dressage. Since I don't really have any burning desire to do more than that. But I can only pay a couple of $1,000! No one is going to care that I can and have put in $10,000's of dollars in vet care if need be. Fact is I can't afford to pay the $10,000+ price tag on your babies/young stock. And I'm pretty shy about asking right off the bat for a cheapie or payment plan. So, I'm limited to the horses that are in my price range around here. For me, that means a whole lot of grade/unsound horse. I've horse shopped in my price range before and it is NOT a pretty sight. But there is no way I'm going to tire kick and waste a breeder's time by calling on a horse that's so far beyond my ability to afford. So, while I fit the criteria (and I may be flattering myself) of a good home, that would show, likes a challenge, not a bad rider, etc, I would never call you. Especially if you're breeding such stellar horses! I can't be the only person who won't call on a $10,000 horse if I can only afford $5,000. Heck, I won't even call on a $6,000 horse if I can only afford $5,000.
    the things that i had not ought to
    i do because i ve gotto
    wotthehell wotthehell



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
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    Charles Town, WV
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    But Gans, if you have paid $10,000 in vet bills (over time) there are breeders willing to take payments with good references. Never be afraid to call a breeder. I may not have what you want, but I have a friend who has 2 horses - perhaps more in your price range - that are very well trained and ready to go. She can only support so many - she's a trainer, not a breeder - and gets given horses sometimes that have problems that she trains out of them. They're safe and sound. Also, I, or another breeder, may have just what you want and be willing to take payments or work something out. Call us. We don't bite - well, most of us - I guess a few do, but not all of us.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
    Now apparently completely invisible!



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    438

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    GansMyMan - I used to feel exactly like you...until I bought my current horse. The owner was listing him online for between $12-13 K. I scooped him up for the bargain price of $6,500! He truly is worth $10+. She sold him to me for so much less because 1) she knew I would spoil the crap out of him and 2) she really needed to sell him. I learned that it's always worth asking. If someone tells you no, then fine, you're no worse off than before you asked. But, there are times you come across the person who tells you yes, just like my horse's previous owner did.



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2002
    Location
    PA, where the State motto is: "If it makes sense, we don't do it!".
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    Well, a lot of it is marketing, or lack thereof--people have to know you and your horses even exist!!!!! The smart breeder will cultivate a "clientele"; if you have satisfied people then they should be referring other clients to you!!!! You have to schmooze them and make sure the horse you sell them is a good match!!! Do you even get in touch with people after you sell them a horse to see if they are satisfied and to ask them if they know anyone else who is looking for a horse???? It's called "leads" by salesmen....

    Then you have that segment of people who have money and want the "snob appeal" of going to Europe for their horse or the bragging rights about having imported their horse from Europe.... In that case the story is more important to the buyers than the horse they've just bought--so you (or your horse) might have just dodged a bullet, whether you want to believe that or not....

    I read a lot of the stuff posted on this board and I will never understand running all over the country looking for "the" horse when, most likely, there is a horse down the road that would fit the bill! Most people just don't want to take the time to ferret out those horses. I'm always mystified when I read the "I can't find a horse" threads--irrespective of the price!!!!! Heck, where I am I can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting at least several dozen horses for sale at all times of the year!!!! I can't believe ya'll can't find a horse!!!!!!

    A lot of people want a horse they can jump on that at least knows the basics! I can't believe that people breed horses and then don't have the knowledge, or the time to get those older foals under saddle--what's up with that????.... I've read the threads on the breeding forum!!!! Then, the breeders are incredulous when they can't get the BNT to train these things for them at a reduced rate so they can sell them for big bucks!!!! The wise thing to do would be to look for a local trainer they can afford who can get these youngsters started then send them out to a BNT for a short period of time so they can market them!

    Homes for higher priced horses are not as plentiful as those for the $500. horse--at least that's my opinion.... Fifteen years ago I paid $500. for an eight year old, registered TB mare with very decent conformation. She's small, but I like 'em that way. I had to retrain her--or rather, train her myself--but she taught me everything I know today! She was a handful!!!! And an almost constant challenge, but eventually we clicked.... I don't need a $5,000 or $10,000 horse and I won't buy one but I will send someone your way if I think you have what they need (as long as you don't treat me like a jerk on COTH)--but how would I know if you have what they need if you don't have a website????

    You know, some breed groups have banded together and are taking out ads in the Hunter & Sport Horse magazine with their names and locations--I think that's a good start! Perhaps you breeders in the same general location might want to band together and do the same thing in some of these horse publications! That way a buyer could look at several horses in the same general location--with gas prices they way they are that would be a wise thing to do!!!! It takes money to make money! You can't expect people to come buy your horses when people don't even know you, or your horses exist.... And no website???? In this day and age if you are selling more than one or two horses that is unforgivable and the kiss of death!!!!!
    "Good gardening is very simple, really. You just have to learn to think like a plant." ~Barbara Damrosch~



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2006
    Posts
    315

    Default

    [edit]

    Back to the OP - for me, when I was looking for a stallion for my mare, I would only consider one whose breeder had a current, UTD website. On a sale page it is very helpful if they have a "Last Updated xx/xx/2008" so you know that the horses listed are available and info is current.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Jun. 28, 2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason: removed reference to deleted post



  20. #40
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    May. 24, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    oooh does that seller have any older tb mares?
    No, but there is one on the Orlando craig's list with a baby at her side, $750 for both!
    Lori T
    www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com
    www.facebook.com/LTEquine for product updates on the lines I rep



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