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  1. #1
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    Default To all horse buyers who complain they can't find anything ... PULEEZE!

    Please read this thread paying very close attention to Tiki's last comment ... post number 39. Here's the link: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...20#post3317620

    WHY oh WHY are we having so much trouble hooking up (breeders & buyers.)

    MOST breeders have horses going under saddle at home ... for eventing, dressage, hunters, jumpers ... why won't you folks listen?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  2. #2
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    Not only that, but I just discovered 34 pages of Free/Free Lease horses available at equine.com...!!!
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  3. #3
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    For the life of me, WA, I cannot figure out why SO MANY people complain they can't find a horse. I just don't know what to say ...
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  4. #4
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    They'll go to a sale and offer you $700 for a $10,000 horse and be enraged and insulted when you tell them politely that you can't do that.


    Look at the many posts, not just here but on lots of forums what people are willing to pay for horses.

    With the market saturated with horses the prices are down, I agree. However even before that many people set limits, most often very low on what they are willing to spend.

    Personally I own three horses all with an avreage price of $8000. Loots of people would pay over $800 for a horse. They will tell you that there are plenty of cheap ones out there. Had a perfomance QH which I sold a few years back for $18000 after puchasing him and having him trained. I bought him at $18000 and the market was just then starting to decline.

    For the life of me, WA, I cannot figure out why SO MANY people complain they can't find a horse. I just don't know what to say ...


    The real problem is the economy stinks and too many horses. Plus there is the mindset that a non-registered, grade horse, purchased at a very low price, is just as good as, a higher priced, well bred, registered horse. They want something for nothing.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    Look at the many posts, not just here but on lots of forums what people are willing to pay for horses.

    Plus there is the mindset that a non-registered, grade horse, purchased at a very low price, is just as good as, a higher priced, well bred, registered horse. They want something for nothing.
    There is a certain facet of the horse-buying public that indeed, wants something for nothing. And those, to a certain extent, are not the people these posts addresses.

    Plus, and I would say this is a HUGE point, many—heck MOST breeders care more about the home than the money.

    If you give a breeder a call in this country and find out there's a 3-year old, not yet started, that is on the breeder's website for, say $10,000—MOST breeders (at least the ones I know) would negotiate, especially if it's a good home. They'd probably give MORE of a discount if you could make a case that you'd show the horse.

    The critical issue here is ... there's no friggin ATTEMPT made by the buying public...then those same people get on the boards here and crab about sellers!!!

    I brought two prospective buyers to a Morven Park show some three years ago...or was it four? Doesn't matter. Did they buy from one of the exhibitors? No. Did they buy from a breeder? YES! They started with one breeder, who recommended another ... ultimately they hooked up.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: breeders know pretty much what all the other breeders are breeding and selling ... and have ZERO hesitation about referring to another breeder. Oh, and what about all those that go to Germany/Holland/France etc. It's not like they're short of cash.

    I think I'm fighting a losing battle...
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  6. #6
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    Aug. 4, 2006
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    I've always found this amazing as well. When I read all the posts about buyers bemoaning the terrible horses they are looking at I continually think to myself that something is wrong with this picture.

    Case and point. I've been riding for a friend who has some horses in training. Was riding a 7 yr old reg. Trak mare who had been started, but was still green and rusty due to a death in the family of the owner. She was asking $7,500 for her. After just 3 weeks of riding her (2x per week) this mare was loffly for w/t. Light in the bridle, sensitive, quiet. Perhaps one of the most honest mares I have ever ridden - one that really "tries" to do it right. We were getting ready to do canter work when owner took an offer for her - $3,500. What a deal the new owners got.

    Where were all the buyers looking for a really nice reg. (well bred) warmblood mare who was going well u/s?



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmo0hul View Post
    We were getting ready to do canter work when owner took an offer for her - $3,500. What a deal the new owners got. Where were all the buyers looking for a really nice reg. (well bred) warmblood mare who was going well u/s?
    Thank you. This happens ALL THE TIME. Breeders are interested in BREEDING, not necessarily horses under saddle. Again, what they ARE interested in is good homes for their "kids" who have been lovingly,... and yes I do mean that, lovingly cared for.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  8. #8
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    While the markt is pretty saturated right now...it's not exactly swimming with awesome horses. Location has a lot to do with it also.
    Finding a competitive show horse isn't the same as finding a great pal, all around type riding horse. It's not going to be anytime soon yet that we'll be seeing the A level show hunters popping up as free/free lease horses.
    Others at mid levels can pick up some great prospects...but a prospect free isn't always the deal it sounds like. Takes training to get the free lease/bomb proof/family horse to hop around a mid-level hunter course, have it's lead changes and pace, etc. Or for the same free horse to be able to have the movement needed for dressage. Competition horses aren't always easy to find. Although there are a lot of diamonds in the rough, not everyone wants a project.
    Location might have a lot to do with it also...a quick check at equine.com for CT showed 13 animals in the free or cheap lease categories. The break down was:
    4 were for people looking for free leases...2 wanted show ready warmbloods for the summr, one wanted an eventing TB and the last just stated show horse.
    Two free lease ponies...both looked nice and were kid-friendly and ready to show low levels. One was already gone. One medium, one large.
    2 horses 22 years old, one companion only and the other companion with *some* light riding possible.
    One Missouri Foxtrotter, on farm only lease.
    One on farm free lease QH, states for experienced rider only, they have no time to ride
    A free lease Irish Sport horse, 14.3 hh
    A free lease Percheron, states he's hot and strong.
    And my favorite...free one year lease on a yearling filly.

    Not exactly wonderful pickings for anyone looking for a horse sized, safe/sane/sound horse they can possibly show.
    In some locations I can find a boatload of free lease horses or really inexpensive ones that are safe, sane and sound. Not in my area yet though. I won't buy out of state often unless it's close by. I'm not into travelling all over the country on my own dime to go check out horses that have probably had the truth stretched a bit on them to try them once, vet them out and then if they really were represented correctly pay to have them shipped here. Not unless I was looking for a show-ready horse or a specific and not easily found breed.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post

    MOST breeders have horses going under saddle at home ... for eventing, dressage, hunters, jumpers ... why won't you folks listen?
    it's a bit like the reason people watch soap operas...as long as the tension and uncertainly remain the tale never ends....the attention and movement remain fixed on the unattainable...and as soon as the thing is attained.....then there is some glitch that denies perfection and without perfection it is a failure...and the process starts all over again...

    best
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    I'm not into travelling all over the country on my own dime to go check out horses that have probably had the truth stretched a bit on them to try them once, vet them out and then if they really were represented correctly pay to have them shipped here.
    There is so much that can be done by phone, mail and internet. Plus, the big advantage in dealing with breeders is (hel-lo) since they've bred the ones they're trying to sell, the majority cannot have the truth stretched. Show records for in hand classes are readily available online and I keep every single test from all their shows. Easy to take a look ...

    Heck, where's the link to the CoTH breeders directory? (I'm going to go look)

    Ok, and look, here's the deal on CT: NONE in the CoTH directory, but 12 in Maryland, 3 in NJ and 7 in NY. Within a relatively short drive, you're got 22 farms. Aren't they worth a telephone call????
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    it's a bit like the reason people watch soap operas...as long as the tension and uncertainly remain the tale never ends....the attention and movement remain fixed on the unattainable...and as soon as the thing is attained.....then there is some glitch that denies perfection and without perfection it is a failure...and the process starts all over again...
    Is that really it, Tamara? Is that really all there is to it? Somehow, that sounds just a little too simple.

    Here's the breeder's directory link: http://www.sonestafarms.com/COTH
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  12. #12

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
    There is so much that can be done by phone, mail and internet. Plus, the big advantage in dealing with breeders is (hel-lo) since they've bred the ones they're trying to sell, the majority cannot have the truth stretched. QUOTE]
    well yes and no....there's a lady not far fom me brought a welsh from far away only to find he was a one baller and the breeder refused to mention it...well $1,000 later she has a fairly common looking gelding too small for dressagy and too big for leadline...now she was planning on breeding him to Apps (bleech) so part of that was her own fault...

    the biggest drama I have is that people want ABSOLUTE guarentees on what a baby colt might be in 3 years...huh ??? he's a yearling/two year old what can I possibly promise about him ??? there he stands decide for yourself....hell you might kill him with worms in 4 mos...!!!?

    grief
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  13. #13
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    Heehee, fair enough, MistyBlue. I didn't check the freebies on Equine.com in your location. In mine, it's almost ALL OTTBs, and it just made me want to cry.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
    Is that really it, Tamara? Is that really all there is to it? Somehow, that sounds just a little too simple.

    Here's the breeder's directory link: http://www.sonestafarms.com/COTH
    I do....what's more fun to someone who maybe is not a dyed in the wool,born in the saddle horseman....

    a.) the thrill of riding the fall leaves and spooking out deer and turkey and feeling the breeze and having a good canter and the creak of leather and the smell of horse hair and sweat...and winter coming in the trees

    oorrrrrrr.....


    b.) going twice a week to an air conditioned fashionable tack store (or god forbid... online) and relaying (once again) your travails on horse hunting THIS week...

    myself....I'll be hearing the leaves crackle....
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    a.) the thrill of riding the fall leaves and spooking out deer and turkey and feeling the breeze and having a good canter and the creak of leather and the smell of horse hair and sweat...and winter coming in the trees
    Heck, this description should be able to sell a fair number on its own!
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
    Heck, this description should be able to sell a fair number on its own!
    yep...and once the hay is done in Nov....the invitation stands for anyone who wants to come and ride here with us...gotta jet...the hay rake calls


    best to you
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  17. #17
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    There is so much that can be done by phone, mail and internet. Plus, the big advantage in dealing with breeders is (hel-lo) since they've bred the ones they're trying to sell, the majority cannot have the truth stretched. Show records for in hand classes are readily available online and I keep every single test from all their shows. Easy to take a look ...

    Heck, where's the link to the CoTH breeders directory? (I'm going to go look)

    Ok, and look, here's the deal on CT: NONE in the CoTH directory, but 12 in Maryland, 3 in NJ and 7 in NY. Within a relatively short drive, you're got 22 farms. Aren't they worth a telephone call????
    Well...after WA's post I assumed this thread was covering all sales and free lease horses and not just young breeder stock. I do understand about buying from breeders.
    FWIW...if I were buying a new horse and going the breeder route none are in my area for the breeds I prefer/would pay more than a few thousand for. I'd have to travel, I understand that. And I would travel because frankly, reputation online or not I'm not forking over 5 figures for any living breathing product without seeing it in person first. However, travelling isn't always easy. I've got my own farmette...by the time I arranged for and paid for someone to come sit at my place, paid for travel and then paid for travel back and shipping a horse I'm adding a pretty hefty chuk of change to the cost of the horse. That's understood for someone unique and spectacular, but for me not worth it for your run of the mill mid-level potential show horse. A horse is a luxury and a sport horse is an even bigger luxury. Kind of like the difference between having a fishing boat with little outboard motor and a 25' pleasure boat.
    Not to mention that of those 3 locations in regards to where I live...it's a 6 hour drive one way minimum. I consider 2 hours and under relatively short. 6 hours of driving at 60 mph is $90 in gas one way. Since I'd be looking at horses, figure one overnight stay at a motel. Minimum 3 meals while out. Horse/farm sitter for 2 days. Fuel to get back home. That's close to $400 to go look at a horse. If the horse isn't represented correctly or even if the horse and I aren't a fit for whatever reason I've burnt $400. Wasn't there an uproar thread on here before about a place charging $500 to go look at horses.
    I'd have to vet in any location...but if I like the horse and it passes vetting shipping it here.
    I do agree with you on breeders though...I prefer to shop through good breeders since I'm narrowing down the field that way. You see a lot less junk and horses are usually more fairly marketed. I had just assumed that the htread was about all horse available in general after WA's post.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    I had just assumed that the htread was about all horse available in general after WA's post.
    Well, it kinda IS, MB. Let's take a ferinstance. You're looking for a pleasure trail horse. CALL the breeder closest to you ...

    Here... let me use an example. I'm looking for a trail horse, long term. AMMIE horse, ... nothing special. Just want to goof off, BUT, I will give it a long-term GOOD home.

    Call the breeder that is closest to me ... X (which I actually DID!!) Question "I'm looking for a trail horse. Do you have any?" Response: No, I breed show horses. Me: AH! Ok. Can you recommend someone reliable and honest that might have something I'm looking for? Yup, call Y. Me: Have you known this person long? Would this person sell me a piece of crap? Reply: No, I've known them 32 years. Me: Can I say you referred me? Reply: Of course (OK, I forgot to ask this last question, but I know this person ... she would not care if I said I was referred by X)

    Now, maybe Y wouldn't have what I'm looking for, but crikey! It sure is a better way to start than just looking on dreamhorse.com

    PEOPLE LOOKING SHOULD START WITH THE BREEDER CLOSEST TO THEM!!!

    Now, this doesn't mean that the individual isn't going to be a nasty piece of work ... rude, etc. But most of the breeders I've met and shown with are WONDERFUL people...just a few horrible exceptions.
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



  19. #19
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    Aug. 4, 2006
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    [edit]

    Proper marketing is a HUGE part of breeders getting their horses sold. Good quality photos with a regularly updated site are critical. I think if more people knew how to photograph and market a horse some of these issues would be moot.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Jun. 28, 2008 at 10:38 PM. Reason: removed reference to deleted post



  20. #20
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    Excellent point, tmoOhul. I don't even have a website, shame on me.

    Question: why didn't you pick up the phone and call?
    "For God hates utterly
    The bray of bragging tongues."
    Sophocles, Antigone Spoken by the Leader of the Chorus of Theban Elders



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