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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,409

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
    BUT, the banks were following legislation that was passed demanding that they allow higher risk people to be given loans, therefore they are riskier loans because the banks have to cover their .... too. This legislation was passed by the same people in the senate who are now calling it predatory lending Again...personal responsibility... if you can't pay it, don't get the loan, but these are the same people abandoning their fugly ponies, puppies and kitties everywhere... and probably popping out a bazillion kids.
    THANK you. The banks were in a no-win situation. They were forced to start issuing loans because otherwise it was ZOMG REDLINING! to people that they logically KNEW would default. And then you had entire organizations like Countrywide who specialized in lending to people who should never have gotten loans in the first place. What did the politicians THINK was going to happen?

    I can't afford a down payment or a mortgage so I didn't buy. I am seriously considering getting rid of cable TV (if I can keep the cable 'net and phone for less--need to review my contract.) I got a smaller, more fuel-efficient car. I will NOT get rid of my two cats (and if I ever had to, the rescue from which one came has a lifetime return policy, and I would have them take his "brother", too.) I will not go looking to get back into riding until the day comes I can afford it, let alone buy a horse. (Unlikely to ever happen. I do competitive ballroom dancing and that isn't cheap. I may at some point even have to pare that down and/or rent one of my dresses out to help with costs.) My brother makes more than I do and he half-leases because right now, he can't afford to buy (he also is quite fond of his lease boy, even when said lease boy makes a hobby out of trying to bite). My parents don't want any large animals right now, even with space for it.

    Woodland--I think I'm scared that the two people you described in your last post exist. And that they were coherent enough to find you in the first place.



  2. #122
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
    Posts
    3,427

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Woodland--I think I'm scared that the two people you described in your last post exist. And that they were coherent enough to find you in the first place.
    I guess that's the thing. They do exist and they do wind up with horses (and children). Then things go off the rails - for whatever reason. I don't think it is as much the issue that they are in the situation they are in, but more the fact that they then feel it is SOMEONE ELSE's responsibility to deal with.

    Not an income issue, not an IQ issue, but an issue of accountabilty and responsibility.



  3. #123
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 1999
    Location
    Holland Township, NJ
    Posts
    2,699

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Shine View Post
    Not an income issue, not an IQ issue, but an issue of accountabilty and responsibility.

    DING DING!! There's our winner!!

    But you might want to add in enablers in a person's life. They may not have put you there, but they sure help keep you there.

    I come from a reasonably well raised family. My dad was oldest of 5. Totally blue-collar, replete with Catholic guilt. Just your normal, middle class, hard work is key type families. THis was passed on down to the 14 grandchildren. Except one, it would seem. One of his sisters lost her husband, oh about 15 or so years ago. She did manage to 'finish' her boys and launch them on the world. And one bounced back. It took awhile to figure out *exactly* what was going on, but my dear cousin is a Coke head. I'll spare ya'll the hairy details, but let's just say we all sincerely believe he is indirectly responsible for her stroke that has left her majorly f-d up and in a nursing home. Some how one night he even managed to find my mother's house and try to get me to let him crash for the night. I told him to get lost. I knew darn well that not only was he bound for jail (i was surprised he wasnt there), that his methadone clinic "friends" had taken what little jewelry my aunt had left while he was passed out in the house, and that his own brothers had given up.

    He was raised right. Not poor by any means, but certainly not affluent. Educated thu HS, maybe a bit more. His brothers have real jobs and function in society. What is the difference? They all made choices, some better than others.

    Not taking basic care of ANY animal in your care (even human ones) is just totally unacceptable. This is America, nobody looses *everything* over night. Unless you are already such a complete loser, you have plenty of warning signs along the way.

    I will say I'd rather see pets dropped off at a shelter in good health than pets picked up by the A.C.O's from abandoned property, 3 weeks later. Pick your battles?

    ETA: my aunt DID, we came to discover, enable her oldest addict child in many ways. Not every thing is known because he ain't talkin and she can't. She also was in total denial that he was in any kind of trouble even tho his foolishness helped put them in serious debt. sigh.



  4. #124
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2006
    Posts
    874

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    I'm so happy so many people have shared my thoughts on this, and so much more pleasantly than I probably would have. I know a woman who works in the welfare system and I've heard plenty of stories (talk about a burnout profession) about horrible people milking the system for all it's worth. I'm not exactly a giving or sympathetic person to the 'less fortunate,' I'm suspicious and cynical partly by nature and partly from experience. But... I detest the rahrahing about 'personal responsibility' and the 'my granddad was a potato farmer and I'm a PhD so shut up and get a second job' method of addressing poverty. It's all luck. Every Last Bit Of It. I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult anyone's sainted mother, but it's all luck. Not what people do, but that it happens to you. My parents loved me and wanted me to get into college and tried to help me. That was them, that's a reflection of them. But that I had them, and the kid down the street whose parents were content to do nothing to push her to be any different from themselves didn't was luck. My luck. OK, so she probably married a plumber who makes 12x my salary Still, the point is there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookes View Post
    I had a 'friend' call and tell me that she has a free horse for me recently. I was like WTF? You know I can't ride anymore my back is trashed! Oh this horse is really old and they just want a good home for it, it's not for riding. Oh ok I'll just put it up in the guest bedroom and saw the door in half so he can look out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Maybe I *don't* really know what it's like to live below the poverty level. But I've been down, trust me. Like when we only had one functioning vehicle and I needed it to get to my Dad's funeral. Poor Mike litterally drove our old horse van to work.
    When a couple only has one car, that is 'down'?

    Quote Originally Posted by criss View Post
    I do not think that word means what you think it means...
    Sigh... Yes, I realized about an hour later that I'd gotten that one wrong. Disaprobation.



  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,874

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    I was talking to a trainer about horses for sale and he told me that he had this nice horse for sale, a fellow ten hours away was interested in the horse and wanted him to haul the horse over for him to try him out.
    If he bought the horse, he wanted to know if the trainer will take him and give him his money back, if in two or three months he doesn't like the horse any more.



  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2005
    Posts
    759

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    OMG... There's a woman near me that has had the same horses for sale. Untrained, grade appy things, a TB and morgan thrown in there for good measure. They aren't groomed, hooves look atrocious and they've never had any veterinary care. I made an offer of $600 for a pair (the TB and an Appy thing) and she darn near pulled a gun on me, saying I was insulting her. Now, she says she can't afford to feed them (complains that she pays $18 for a round bale - and a round bale I wouldn't even feed to cows), she recently had surgery, so the physical labor is impossible, but I offered more than she would get at an auction and she flipped her lid. She feeds them dried cob corn (with external mold), and one of the old ponies is foundered. The stallion is kept in a stall, never turned out because she doesn't have stallion fencing, and she can't clean his stall due to her surgery. I told her, take them to a sale, call me and let me know when and where, and I'll own them for less than what I offered. Several people have called the SPCA on her, but because the horses are easy keepers and all in relatively good weight, nothing gets done. But she wants to keep breeding because the babies are "wonderful to watch in the field".

    Then, there's a neighbor that called me. They had a 2 year old QH with serious spoiled baby syndrome. A backyard breeding, they let the foal have it's way, and now it's big and dangerous. The filly trampled the owner, breaking her leg in three places and fracturing her neck. The lady was in a halo and cast, bound to a wheelchair. She called me and I told her I didn't know how much help I'd be. She insisted that she wanted to at least get $900 for her. I told her she would be lucky to get $300 because she would have to tell anyone about the history of this horse and the potential danger involved with her. I also said that she may be best served either giving her away to a professional or possibly a college with a training program, euthanizing, or taking the filly to sale (but again, clearly outlining the filly's issues.) The filly really needed someone to put the fear of GOD into her. Someone to firmly tell her "This is how this is going to be from now on." I don't think she was inherently dangerous, but she needed an abrupt change of scene before anyone else got hurt. The lady wasn't too keen on what I had to say, because she didn't believe in being "too harsh" on any animal. I plainly told her this wasn't a bunny-hugger situation. I don't know what ever happened with the filly. All I know is that she didn't become my problem - and I'm better off for it.

    I feel bad for the horses that are left to suffer with the state of the economy. I got smart and started rehoming some of my horses 1 1/2 years ago and am so happy that I did. They're all in great homes with smart, responsible people and not one is in a situation where they're another horse in the barn. I really get frustrated with irresponsible breeders and careless animal-owners. My horses eat before I do, every day, every feeding. And that's the way it will stay.



  7. #127
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2006
    Location
    The Low Country
    Posts
    847

    Default For those that were interested in the "you are not special" speech

    I received several requests for "the speech" so here it is (it was a nice diversion from the grading sitting in front of me). Feel free to adapt it to your particular needs with a variety of audiences.

    I don’t have a specific text (have given it more times than I can count) for my “You are not special” speech, so I did my best to recreate the speech for those who are interested.

    When I start class on the first day we go through the basic policies and procedures for the course. My classes can range anywhere from 25-100 students. Once we have gone over the basics, I move to this.

    You’ll notice on the syllabus this statement, “A SPECIAL NOTE REGARDING CLASS EXPECTATIONS: I have high expectations of any student who chooses to enter a college classroom, but I have particularly high expectations of the students in this class. This is mainly because I would assume that if you are in this class, you have a) decided to be a communication major or b) you have at least some interest in the field of communication. I expect that your work will be of high quality and that you will engage the material. I also expect that you take responsibility for your actions (or your failure to act). I expect you to be proactive about your grade and your work in this class. If you are concerned about your grade, you should contact me and make efforts early in the semester to address the situation. At the end of the semester it will be too late for me to offer you any constructive options. I will not make exceptions or allowances for individual problems (unless it is an extreme and DOCUMENTED issue). I cannot, in good conscience offer one student an opportunity that I would be unwilling to offer to the entire class.”

    I completely understand that things happen during the semester that may be outside of your control, however, before approaching me about your particular circumstances, I encourage you to read and reread the statement above, particularly if you are asking me for any kind of special consideration. I take this policy very seriously, because in my years of teaching it is the best policy I can come up with to address the needs of ALL students. Each semester here I teach between 100-150 students. Although I am a relatively junior faculty member I have taught at several institutions, and taught thousands of students. In all honesty, the number of “special” circumstances that warrant an exception to the stated policies in the syllabus is relatively small.

    I use this policy, not to be “mean” or “unfair” to particular students, but to be reasonable and fair to all students. I am not in the business of policing excuses for their validity. If I receive official communication from a college administrator that you have an extreme circumstance then I will make an exception for you. Otherwise, why should you be granted an exception that I would not be willing to grant for all other students in the class?

    For the record, the following instances are not valid reasons to not turn in an assignment:

    A sore throat
    A malfunctioning printer (you can email a copy of the paper to me before class and then find a way to print it when you arrive on campus – if you can’t do that the paper is probably not done)
    The internet went down and you couldn’t finish your paper because you needed additional sources (this is really problematic, because it means that not only have you written your paper the night before, you have also not done the research for your paper until the night before)
    The library closed too early
    You had a minor fender-bender 3 days ago and needed to meet the insurance agent
    You broke up with your boyfriend/girlfriend
    You have to leave for your best friend’s wedding/a family vacation/spring break/a sporting event (first of all, your parents should know when you are in class and refrain from making flight arrangements, plans, etc while you are in class; secondly, if you do have to miss class for such situations, it is YOUR responsibility to turn the assignment in EARLY before you leave; you are choosing to go out of town, you therefore need to compensate for that)

    These circumstances will not warrant exceptions to course policies because, frankly, they are not exceptional circumstances. I am not unsympathetic to the reality that “life happens,” however when life happens, consequences happen as well. You have to deal with those, as well as life.

    There are common questions that arise when we discuss this, so I thought I would counter them here:

    1) Is it better, then, to lie and make up a better story for why the assignment is not here? No, because you still need to provide substantive and verifiable documentation for your situation. If you are planning to go all the way and fabricate that as well, you should read my class policy on academic dishonesty – then you will have bigger problems that a poor grade in my class.
    2) Is it better, then, to just be honest and say that I just couldn’t get the assignment done? Sure. I would appreciate that kind of honesty. Will it make me rethink not penalizing you for not turning the assignment in? Nope, but I would really appreciate not having to wade through yet another amazing, evolving excuse.

    Obviously, the best choice you can make is getting your work done and in on time. Barring that, you will need to do what you can to get something to me – even if it is not your best work, because some grade on an assignment is better than no grade on an assignment. And, yes, if you don’t turn in an assignment, you don’t get an “F,” you get a zero (I once had a student who assumed she got a 55 for her missing assignment).

    Again, I use this policy out of fairness to those in the class who struggled to get the assignment done and in (even if it wasn’t their best work). Why should the person with special circumstances be granted the same (or a better) grade than that person?

    Some of you will also come to me after an assignment is returned to ask that a grade be reconsidered. I will reconsider a grade if I have made a mistake applying an objecting standard or if you can make a substantive argument about why my grading or my justification of the grade you have received is problematic. However, I will not alter a grade for the following reasons:

    You think the grade should be higher because you worked hard on it
    You are not a C (or A- or B or D or F) student
    You didn’t have enough time to get the assignment done
    You talked to someone else in the class and you think that your work is better than theirs (NOTE: I can only discuss your grade on an assignment. Legally, I cannot discuss the performance of another student in the class)
    Your parents will be angry at you (or me) for the grade you have received. (And, no, it is not necessary to have your parents call me because THEY think that you should have gotten a better grade. Again, legally, if you are over the age of 18, I cannot speak with anyone about your grade without your written permission)
    You NEED a better grade in my class to boost your GPA, keep your scholarship, graduate, get into law/grad school, etc. (Again, I am not unsympathetic to your plight, but a failure to succeed on your part, should not involve a call for me to bend my ethical responsibility to all of my students by giving you a grade you don’t deserve).

    Students sometimes tell me that I should be more lenient about these things because college is not “the real world.” That argument does not hold for me. First of all, college is supposed to be preparing you for “the real world.” It is not High School, Part II. You should be learning to behave responsibly and professionally. I would be doing a great disservice to you if I let these things slide, because in “the real world” no one is going to care about your excuses. You get the job done, or you don’t have a job. The job market for a college graduate is not what it once was. You can no longer get a degree (especially in Communication) and expect that a job will be sitting there waiting for you when you get out. You have to work for it. That means several things. First, it means that you will have to go above and beyond to even be considered for jobs/internships. A member of our advisory council (who is the CEO of operations for the North American branch of a major PR firm) told me recently that her firm offered a total of 9 internships – they received over 900 applications. Mediocrity will not cut it in today’s market. And, if you do get a job, mediocrity will not help you keep it or advance in your field.

    I will not reward mediocrity or excuses here. Mediocre work will receive mediocre grades. I expect you all to put your best foot forward, get your work done, and do that work to the best of your ability in the time frame provided. If you have any questions or concerns about this policy, feel free to discuss the issue with me.
    When life gives you lemons. . .say &%^# you lemons! And throw those lemons back in life's face so that it will be afraid of you and won't try that crap again!



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