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  1. #81
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    May. 1, 2008
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    43

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeeThbd
    You know what though? I was just thinking about this in human terms.....aren't we seeing so much of the same thing, with people having kids with several different relationships and thinking it is "okay"? I am no prude.....I am OK with people living committed relationships regarding their orientation, age or socio-economic group; however, when I see kids who have siblings from their own parents' relationship, and then a slew of half siblings from whoever the flavour of the month was.....I have an issue with it. And honestly, a lot of these kids sound like the human version of what Woodland described......and there ain't no meat buyers for them.
    (think I'd better dust off the flame suit now.....)
    Dee

    IMO "Can't Feed Them? Don't Breed Them!" applies to both animals and people.


    You guys said it all!
    Thanks!

    And the original poster is my hero for giving the REALITY answer to the whackadoo lady! yeah fine, Im wearing asbestos as well.
    Horse between legs, rider on top.



  2. #82
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    May. 1, 2008
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    43

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoebetrainer View Post
    I think that the biggest problem for people is that the consequences are 9 months too late. If sex was as painful as giving birth there would be far fewer families with mutiple dads, or mothers who don't know who the father is.

    A paediatrician friend and I concocted a great plan for population control. Contraceptives are in all fast foods, coke, beer. Anyone can get the antidote for the contraceptive, but you and your partner must take it in the same place (2 halves of a pill?) at the same time, every day for 3 months, before the woman can conceive. Then children are really planned.
    Oh oh oh! I just have to say that You are a genious! Can I help market this contraceptive!!!
    Horse between legs, rider on top.



  3. #83
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
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    Maryland
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    9,533

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirljenn View Post
    I might SAY I wouldn't do that or couldn't do that, that I would find homes for them, but until I walk that road.. who knows what I would do?
    Amen.

    It's easy for people to say what they would do, or what other people should do, but in many cases, it's a "there but for the grace of god go i..." thing.

    I'm very lucky, in that I realize my current position in life is largely due to... luck. I can afford my horse because I have a good, secure job. I have that job because I have a college degree, which I got because of a scholarship, which I got because I was raised by parents who valued education above all else.

    A simple tweak in my life circumstances and I could very well be one of "those" people that everyone else is complaining about.

    Lots of soapboxes up in here....
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  4. #84
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    Oct. 8, 2002
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    Maryland
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    9,533

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    He came from the stereotypical poor family background. He litterally climbed the fence and started his life in the US as an illegal farm worker. He wanted more, he got more. He's a friggn' doctor now, in a highly specialized area practicing at John's Hopkin's for heaven's sake!
    heh. There's something sort of funny here- I know many people who would point to his success and say, "see?? it can be done!!!" who are the same people who gripe and whine about "illegals" who should all be shipped back to Mexico, ASAP, or shot at the border, and any legalization is amnesty that shouldn't be allowed!

    (not saying that about you, as I don't know your opinions on illegal immigration, but I can just see this conversation happening in my head, and know it's happened more than a few times right here on coth.)
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  5. #85
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
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    6,275

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    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    It's easy for people to say what they would do, or what other people should do, but in many cases, it's a "there but for the grace of god go i..." thing.

    I'm very lucky, in that I realize my current position in life is largely due to... luck. I can afford my horse because I have a good, secure job. I have that job because I have a college degree, which I got because of a scholarship, which I got because I was raised by parents who valued education above all else.
    Yes "But for the grace of God..."
    *I* am where I am because I worked since I was 14, paid my way through HS and college by waitressing, babysitting and other jobs... graduated with a degree, 2 minors and a certification (and scored very well on the state cert exam). I did not have a child until I was over 35 and married and secure financially. While I bought my horse when I was way too young and unfinancially stable- I busted my youknowwhat (working up to 3 jobs and nights weekends and holidays) to take care of him the best way I knew at the time- because it's the right thing to do.

    I did all this not because I have an incredible work ethic (I do) but because I grew up without anything being handed to me and working for everything I had/wanted.

    I know what it is to eat PB&J at every meal so that I can provide for my dependants. To those who say one can not judge, and say what one would do in these situations... well I disagree. I know what I would do because I know what I did.



  6. #86
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2004
    Location
    NoVa
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    5,147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    I'm very lucky, in that I realize my current position in life is largely due to... luck. I can afford my horse because I have a good, secure job. I have that job because I have a college degree, which I got because of a scholarship, which I got because I was raised by parents who valued education above all else. .
    I don't necessarily agree. *Someone* has to put the ball in motion.
    My mom was born and raised in backwoods Mississippi, but that wasn't enough for her. After high school, she wanted to (gasp) go to college!! Her family did not support her (emotionally or financially) because they didn't see the point in her going. It took her 6+ years to get through since she kept having to pause in order to earn the money to continue, but she did!! I have the utmost respect for that woman!
    Did I have it easier because, like you, my parents instilled in me the importance of education? Maybe. But that doesn't mean that those who aren't "lucky" in that respect can't succeed.



  7. #87
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    Aug. 10, 2004
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    2,313

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    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    A simple tweak in my life circumstances and I could very well be one of "those" people that everyone else is complaining about.
    The people I'm complaining about are those that dig themselves a nice deep hole and then piss, moan and whine for handouts so they can get out. And they EXPECT it. They actually think they DESERVE it. Those are the ones I'm tired of hearing about.

    There was a story on the news the other day about a family in Stafford who used the rest of the equity they had in their house at that time (something like $185,000) to start a business. Well, their business and the housing market flopped and now they're upside down on their house and headed for foreclosure. Why should they have even been in the news? It's no one else's fault that they are in this position. THEY are the ones who decided to use their home to start a business. Not a risk I'm willing to take. They should have done a little more research before doing what they did.

    Our firm does a charity "thing" for Christmas where we sponsor families so the children can have a real Christmas. I have no problem with that. IMO Christmas is all about the children waking up Christmas morning to presents under the tree. What bothers me are all of the parents asking for gift cards for manicures/pedicures, televisions for THEIR bedrooms, etc. If you're asking for handouts, you should only expect to receive the NECESSITIES. Manicures and televisions for your bedroom are NOT necessities. Ask for gift cards to grocery stores or something like that for crying out loud.

    For those people, I will stay on my soapbox.
    Honey badger don't give a sh!t.



  8. #88
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
    Posts
    3,427

    Default Donate to the 'deserving'

    My husband was just saying that he has noticed a trend in asking for charity donations.

    They have gone from being: for the poor.

    To being: for the disadvantaged.

    And the latest ad has been to donate: to the deserving.

    Kinda makes you think, huh?



  9. #89
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2004
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    NoVa
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    5,147

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    Quote Originally Posted by justdandy View Post
    There was a story on the news the other day about a family in Stafford who used the rest of the equity they had in their house at that time (something like $185,000) to start a business. .
    Random tangent, JD, did I tell you a friend and I started our own business??? (Seriously!)



  10. #90
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    Aug. 10, 2004
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    2,313

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    Quote Originally Posted by Invested1 View Post
    Random tangent, JD, did I tell you a friend and I started our own business??? (Seriously!)
    You suck! You didn't invite me to be a part of it? I'm so offended.

    Just kidding!!! You'll have to e-mail me the information.
    Honey badger don't give a sh!t.



  11. #91
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    Apr. 3, 2003
    Location
    Up the creek from bar.ka
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    10,036

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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Shine View Post

    And the latest ad has been to donate: to the deserving.

    Kinda makes you think, huh?
    Are you kidding me? That really makes like entitlement doesn't it?



  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2000
    Location
    Amherst, MA
    Posts
    5,341

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    Re: "the deserving poor".

    This is a phrase straight out of the Victorian era/Dickensian era, literally.

    Poor-houses were thought at the time to be the appropriate place for orphaned children, or abandoned children. Think Oliver Twist.

    The intolerance for the poor or the readiness to see the poor as the authors of their own misfortune is a defensive mechanism: "It can't happen to me because I'm too ____ [fill in the blank.]"

    Lighten up and cut people some slack.

    Yes, there are idiots out there. The idiots are always with us.

    but being poor doesn't mean you're an idiot and being an idiot doesn't mean you're poor.

    And all this talk about eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches is making me hungry.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky



  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2007
    Location
    Behind the Orange Curtain
    Posts
    9,694

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    Quote Originally Posted by BelladonnaLily View Post
    So, while I was not raised in poverty, that was because my parents and grandparents didn't let poverty control their future.
    Listen, I'm not trying to get you to start giving handouts, or to start seeing the poor as martyred saints. What you describe above is the *only* way out. Of course poverty isn't a one way ticket- I have a similar background (actually my mother was born to a middle class family, but her father abandoned them when she was 13). My mother is the first in her small part of the family to graduate college. So far in my generation, 3 of us have... it does propagate!

    But the fact that your parents/grandparents were poor, was that because they just didn't try hard enough? Was it because they didn't work hard enough? Or is it possible that some hard working people remain in poverty no matter what they do? (here in California, a minimum wage job isn't enough to keep people out of poverty even if two parents are working).

    I could say "I was raised by a single mom who worked AND went to school, we didn't have a car, and I wore thrift store clothes. Yet, look at me now!" That would be completely ignoring all of the other resources I had. The loving grandparents with the ranch, a good, safe school, and a genetic predisposition toward academic ability, and a since graduated mother who helped me with college. And my poor, depression era grandfather with the 5th grade education was actually the man described in this blog:

    http://cameratrapcodger.blogspot.com...n-country.html

    which I just found while doing a search of his name. So, seriously, I didn't have a normal poor upbringing



  14. #94
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    6,275

    Default

    You can be poor and live within your means and not be impoverished.
    Does that make sense?

    While I was poor, I supported a horse who I boarded. Some would argue I was not poor, but overspending, perhaps.
    So without the horse I would have been A-ok, and I never went without a meal even though I had the horse.
    But I also did not get a second horse, or have a kid or buy a car with a payment I could not afford. That is the part I never get- spending beyond your means, esp in these times.


    So if we can afford a horse are we ever, truly 'poor'?



  15. #95
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2005
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    5,219

    Unhappy

    I have to take these phone calls, too. It's disheartening. I handle some of the Equihab's shelter phone calls, and sometimes word-of-mouth had people seeking me out personally to help with their dog, sheep, or whatever.

    I feel bad enough that I can't help every animal in trouble. Then they try to make me feel worse so they can get their way. They end up mad at me. I end up feeling crappy. Someone please remind me why i even answer the phone anymore?

    One of my favorite recent guilt-trips: the lady with a 9 yr old horse so crippled he shuffled around the paddock. Even with 2g bute every day and special shoes all around, he was in bad shape from advanced ringbone and who knows what else. She wanted someone to take him and give him a 'forever home'. I offered to help her find affordable euthanasia -or- if she cannot afford it, I'd talk to our rescue's BoD to have him put down. "No he's sooo sweet!!!" she croons. <voice turns nasty> "I'll eat hot dogs every night for the rest of my life if that's what I have to do, if you're not going to help me." [suddenly the horse she could not afford was now affordable] Then I was scolded for not caring and for wanting to put down a "sweet" horse. I bet she went and told her friends how uncaring I was and how poorly she felt she was treated.

    If I won the lottery, things could be different. But I am a regular person working a regular job, struggling just to find the gas money to put in my tank. Hay & grain prices have gone up for me, too.

    I just don't know what to say anymore.



  16. #96
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2006
    Location
    Plantation, FL
    Posts
    913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Posting Trot View Post
    I think this has more to do with a lousy economy than with anything else. You can rail about other people's morals all you want, but it is way easier to act morally if you have money.

    There was a long (and heart-breaking) story in the NY Times today about families in the Atlanta area, Florida and elsewhere having to drop family pets, especially big dogs, off at shelters because they no longer have the money to take care of them.

    Oh, Puh-lease! I don't feel sorry for the thousands of mortgagors, who cashed out the equity in their homes like it was their personal ATM machines either. So, you ran up your credit cards? You and your family are better off taking a settlement and paying off the reduced balance than if you risk your family's shelter by refinancing your home at a higher adjustable interest rate mortgage (due to the fact that you already damaged your credit rating anyway). What are people thinking? I'm glad my parents were old-fashioned and taught me to save a buck. I might not have much income right now (my clients can't pay their bills either), but I have emergency savings, regular savings, and retirement savings to get me over a rough patch.

    And yes--education is key! I've tried and tried to teach it to my kids. My last one just graduated high school and is signing up for community college (Florida Prepaid College Plan, i.e., savings!) next week. She's been working as a server at a popular chain restaurant, and she knows she wants an easier job making more $$$.

    Other than education, you have to MAKE your OPPORTUNITIES!
    T3DE 2010 Pact Group
    Barefoot Eventers Clique
    http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...2lkxcbn110.jpg



  17. #97
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2007
    Posts
    30

    Talking Ahmen Sista

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodland View Post
    So 7 AM I get a call from a woman who is trying to sell a couple of horses. Hay is high, they are moving, blah blah blah. Not selling on the major equine web sites, can I help? So I get out my note book and ask for the particulars:

    Sassy 10 yr old ApHC on a breeding certificate - is not broke, and kicks & bites if you do not feed her the treats she likes. But is really pretty red roan.

    Elfen - Sassy's 6 yr old half paint baby - not broke to lead - but will follow for a snack. Has kicked chased and bitten the kids.

    Elvira - Sassy's 5 yr old half paint baby - charges if you come near her - do not go near her ever! Never been weaned from Sassy

    Tango Elfen's half STB STUD COLT 3 yrs old - may have bred the other three - They tried to break him at their last Memorial day party in 2007 - He put someone in the hospital that day not touched since. Also not really halter broke.

    WHAT THE H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS AM I SUPPOSED TO HELP THEM SELL????? I told her "Ma'am you need to call a meat buyer, these animals are not salvageable in my opinion". She go so PISSED. I said "What did you think was going to happen to these animals when you bred indiscriminately AND FAILED to train them properly????!" "I can not, would not help you even if I could." And i hung up.

    Followed by another caller "I have a 20 yr old mare that i have had for 15 years with EPM I do not want any more. I would like to donate her into your riding camp program." I just said "No thanks. You should be kind and put the poor thing down if you won't properly care for her." and hung up -

    Honestly people WAKE UP! Don't have horses if you can not or will not properly care for them - then do not be pissed at me when I tell you I can not help you DING BATS!
    I so hear you!



  18. #98
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    My parents didn't go on welfare until I was around 7, but my dad wouldn't let my mom work until my brother and I were too old for them to get AFDC anymore. He said they were able to make more money that way.

    They didn't count money my brother and I made against our benefits, so I frequently paid the electric bill, our share of the rent, etc. from money I made mucking stalls, babysitting, house-cleaning, raising animals through 4-H, etc. from the time I was around 10. To make it more horse-related, there was a barn near our house where I got to ride in exchange for work quite a bit, but we weren't able to afford lessons.

    I haven't taken any government financial assistance (except financial aid in Jr. College), even when I was scrounging for money to eat. I didn't get financial aid for university - I worked full time, carried a full-time courseload, and was able to get tuition reimbursement. I didn't finish my degree until I was 32 years old, though.

    I don't complain about paying taxes - I figured I've repaid the investment America made in me. Yeah, some people are lazy, and perhaps they shouldn't be eligible for help, but that penalises their kids who *aren't* necessarily following in their footsteps.
    Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.



  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,999

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post

    I could say "I was raised by a single mom who worked AND went to school, we didn't have a car, and I wore thrift store clothes. Yet, look at me now!" That would be completely ignoring all of the other resources I had. The loving grandparents with the ranch, a good, safe school, and a genetic predisposition toward academic ability, and a since graduated mother who helped me with college.
    Ambrey, I think many people are missing your excellent point.

    It's not about being financially poor - it's being emotionally and pyschologically poor. It's much more devastating and much more difficult to mend. Opportunity is superflous as they do not have the basic reasoning and stability needed to take advantage of it.

    I volunteer with a program that caters to underprivileged kids - gives them a place to go for an hour and a half each week to forget about their crummy lives. It's been well over a year and I still can't get who is related to who straight

    These kids are coming from backgrounds that practically guarantee that they will struggle through life. They have not been given the emotional stability to deal with things in their lives and it doesn't get better as they reach adulthood. How would it?

    You cannot rise above your situation if you have not been given the tools to do so. With mentoring, SOME of these kids may learn to deal with the emotional scars that they have endured but most will slip through the cracks and become the people so despised on this thread.

    You truly cannot understand the lack of capacity to deal with life's problems if you have never experienced the kind of lifestyle that these children have had to live through.
    \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River



  20. #100
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2005
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMare01 View Post
    FYI...food stamp allowance is roughly equal to $1 per person per day. Have you ever tried to feed youself on $1 a day? I doubt it's easy.
    I've done it. I lived on potatos for over a year. Every * Single * Day Every once in a while I came up with enough cash to buy some cheese or milk. I lived in a one room shack and worked at a slightly above minimum wage job. I had one horse and one cat at the time. They ate before I did. I'm fortunate enough to be better off now but it's from my own hard work and frugalness. I still eat a lot of potatos, don't have cable or satellite, take vacations, take lessons or show, drive a fancy car, and chose not to procreate. Some people were born into an unfortunate situation and may never get out of it. But I think a lot more are currently in their unfortunate situation because of the poor choices they've made over the years. I can't feel too sorry for them.



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