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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2004
    Location
    Nescopeck PA
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Just need to vent, lost my last foal on Tues morning....

    Ok so I'll start on Monday evening. I rent a barn from a very nice man. There is a tractor path road that runs by his property, on the other side is a 15 acre pasture. In that pasture I keep my stallion along with a select few of my in-foal mares, to keep him company. He was out with three mares, one being my perch cross mare who would have been at 340 days on July 29th. Monday night I get a call from Gus, who owns the farm. He says there are two kids on four wheelers in my pasture hooting it up and the horses are upset. I asked is it ***Jr. Son of land owner. He doesn't think so. So I said well I'm going to call ***Sr. I call Sr. and he says yes Jr and his friend are going to look at the creek. I told him that Gus thought the horses were upset but maybe Gus was being over reactive. He doesn't really care for everything Sr and Jr do! I get off the phone and Gus calls back. Still out there. This is all within 5-7 minutes. I go get in the truck and drive out. I get there and Jr and his friend are gone. I call the mares and stallion down. Check everyone over, everyone is fine, no one is hot, it's a cool night. I take note of the huge mud bog now where I feed them with ATV tracks. Gus comes out with his wife, is glad every is ok.
    Tuesday morning. I am at work. James feeds for me (my hubby). I get a call around 10:30 it's Gus. "Um you have a dead filly in the field". I am beside myself trying not to cry. I can't just leave work. He says Apple is ok but the stallion won't let Gus near her (Gus is scared of big horses, so Aspen may just have been looking at him). But Gus takes blankets up and covers filly and placenta for me til I get home. I call Sr and leave a message I lost foal and am concerned about the safety of my horses can they call me back.
    I get home and Gus takes his tractor up and helps me get filly and bury her. SUV pulls up and Jr's mom steps out. I'm expecting her to be empathic, she has horses and foals. She starts screaming at me! For 10 minutes she yells about how is it their problem, yadda yadda. Finally Gus steps up and says, I don't care what you think or what he said but I know what I saw and in a 15 acre pasture if you are 20 feet from the horses you are chasing them. In the meantime I am crying and telling her that I am not mad, just worried. That my one mare had mud streaks all over her from the ATV mud kick back. She is still yelling! Finally she calms down and says that he was not to be in there and they took his ATV away and she couldn't believe he dug the pasture up. She said he needs to call me to make "amends".
    Well it's Friday night and guess what no call yet. At this point I don't care. My take is he's a 20 year old kid that had a friend over and went mud bogging in the pasture. I mean he's been in there before with his ATV and things have been fine, he's reasonable, checking fence etc. He just got an adrenaline rush and did something stupid. I know he feels bad. Gus saw him walking the field 1 hour after I left the message. But he still hasn't called and even if he does I forgive him. I can't change the loss of the foal. BUT I am beyond pissed at his mom. I can't believe she treated me like she did. It was like it was MY fault for him being in the field I rent. I am just upset and hurt. I was told mares just don't abort because of stress. But I had the mare cultured and flushed and examined, and they could find nothing wrong. It appeared the foal was delivered alive and at 297 days just didn't have the lungs to breathe. The mare is doing well, she is at the broodmare barn now, relaxing so she isn't bred right back. She loves being a mommy, but she will be ok. I think more then anything I just needed to vent about my frustrations with Jrs. mom and then give accolades and praise to Gus who helped me.
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2003
    Location
    Wet and Windy Washington
    Posts
    3,845

    Default

    Not sure what to say to you except *hugs* and sorry for your loss

    I'm sure the mother was just reacting and being emotional as its distressing to think that her family may have been the cause for the death of your filly. Obviously she does feel the blame as she effectively grounded Jr by taking away his ATV. I'm sure he also feels horrible..its hard at 20 to step up to the plate and apologise for something so horrid.

    Glad to hear that the mare is well.
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2007
    Location
    Cloverdale, Ca.
    Posts
    1,614

    Default

    I'm so sorry for your loss. It's impossible to tell if the youth is at fault or not. It could very well have been a premature delivery. The 20 year old male child's mom was way out of line in MHO.

    If you rent the pasture, I would put locks on the gates. If the youth had called to discuss the loss, I'd have a lot more faith in him. His total lack of response would make me question his sincerity. I hate parents like this who pamper their kids so much that the kids don't even have the decency to right a wrong.

    I have 2 sons and I'll never forget the night my then 13 year old son, egged someones house on Halloween. Living in a small town, someone had called me. I drove his (my son) smart ass right over to that house, made him walk up to the door, by himself, apologize, and offer restitution in the way of slave labor to clean the entire area.

    For these kids to ever become adults, they need to be held accountable. Lock the gates until the 20 year old male child grows a pair, and becomes a man!
    Last edited by misita; Jun. 20, 2008 at 11:46 PM.
    Chris Misita
    www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
    To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
    Victor Hugo



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Fauquier County, VA
    Posts
    10,467

    Default

    I am sorry, but 20 years old and he doesn't know better than that? My 22 year old sister has her own company and does business in 8 countries. Twenty years old is not a child (and I dare say that a child *should* know better).

    Chasing a horse on an ATV is abuse, plain and simple. What if one of the horses had broken a leg while being run down? Or what if the smarta** had gotten kicked by a horse during all these antics? Do you think the parents would shrug and say oh, well? And this is the neighbor's son (i.e., a trespasser)?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    An American Living In Ireland
    Posts
    5,671

    Default

    First of all, I am very sorry abour your filly.

    Secondly, as mentioned above, you get locks and you keep those gates locked at all times. You RENT that field. You have the right to secure the safety of your animals. Screw protocol and niceness. I just can't tell you how I would have freaked out.

    As for mom of a 20 year old PITA, she may have calmed down, but if she owns horses her first thought should have been with you and not her delinquent son. What would she had done if you were whoopin it up in her pasture full of mares and foals?

    We have ATV's that we use for getting things out to fields with horses in them. But fast crazy ATV = horses going nuts. I'm sorry it's, not acceptable. You are obviously a very nice kind caring person to have handled this situation with the grace you have. If someone threatens the safety of my horses, I'm afraid I couldn't be as graceful as you. I'm sure it would have landed me in a heap of trouble, but I wouldn't have cared. Mr. Equilibrium would have made sure those ATV's never worked again and lord knows what else!

    I am so sorry, but please do something so they can't get in to your field again.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2005
    Location
    Charlotte, NC and Wellington, FL
    Posts
    1,507

    Default

    I think the 20 year old "child" caused the mare to abort. No question about it in my mind. He terrorized the mare... she aborted.... very simple....he did it and his mother doesn't want him to take responsibility for the death of the fetus. It sounds like she thinks tearing up the pasture is naughty and he needs to apologize. Is that the worst thing that happened as a result of his irresponsible behavior? Hardly.

    I'd be fuming if I were you. I'd expect them to pay any vet bills relating to the lost pregnancy and rebreeding of said mare.

    It sounds like you are probably not going to stick up for yourself with this woman. Confrontation is never fun. I really think you need to put it to her in no uncertain terms, though. How about writing her a letter? And, I wouldn't be so fast to let the kid off the hook, either.
    http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
    CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
    Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2001
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    972

    Default

    So very sorry.

    Really, I think the 20 yr old should have known better and if he doesn't...well, then someone has to explain to him. Youre right, its not going to bring your foal back and I'm sure he feels badly (I would hope) but you probably should have a talk with him...just to set things straight.

    So sorry you had to go thru this.
    www.trevelyanfarm.com
    Follow us: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Tre...1609022?ref=ts
    Breeders of Sport Horses & New Forest Sport Ponies



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2005
    Location
    Lovely Central Massachusetts
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
    I am sorry, but 20 years old and he doesn't know better than that? My 22 year old sister has her own company and does business in 8 countries. Twenty years old is not a child (and I dare say that a child *should* know better).

    Chasing a horse on an ATV is abuse, plain and simple. What if one of the horses had broken a leg while being run down? Or what if the smarta** had gotten kicked by a horse during all these antics? Do you think the parents would shrug and say oh, well? And this is the neighbor's son (i.e., a trespasser)?

    Yes, yes, yes.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2008
    Posts
    961

    Default

    I am so very sorry for your loss! How upsetting to have been waiting all that time then to loose the foal. Give your mare an extra carrot would you for me?

    As for the family who rides the ATV's in your pasture, I am sorry but if they were my horses I would be fuming. I now have a horse who is petrified of ATV's and motor bikes due to my neighbors antics, nothing the sheriff would due as he was technically on his land across the street and I hadn't been hurt. What they did was negligence and I would post no trespassing signs along the pasture so they are easily seen then set down some rules. Then I would say "Stay the Hades away from my horses and the pasture."

    Good luck and many hugs to you.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2003
    Location
    Davidsonville, MD
    Posts
    2,702

    Default

    I agree - put locks on the gates!! I am so sorry to hear about your loss - unlike you, I would be fuming , not just worried. I hope you can get everything worked out and I also hope the sorry excuse for a 20-year old apologizes.
    Erin
    Dodon Farm - Home of Salute The Truth, Thoroughbred Stallion and on Facebook
    The Retired Racehorse Project, a 501(c)3 Non profit organization.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2007
    Posts
    196

    Default

    I'm so sorry for the loss of your filly. Why in the world would anybody think it's ok to ride ATV's in a horse pasture? As for whether or not the stress caused the mare to abort, I think you cannot know. I had a mare in her last trimester get chased through the fence, run around 200 acres, end up on the freeway, backed up traffic for miles. Ran so hard that the gelding who was chasing her bled. She had a healthy colt two months later.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 19, 2005
    Location
    good ole\' midwest
    Posts
    390

    Default

    I too am so sorry for your loss. I would at the very least (after padlocking the pasture and putting up no trespassing signs) call the Humane Society and tell them what happened. If they think it is worthy, press charges against this person. He is 20 years old; he is no child. There are men younger than he fighting and dying over in Iraq--only they have a pair he apparently knows nothing about.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
    Location
    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
    Posts
    12,079

    Default

    I am so sorry. I think you have every right to be upset over the treatment by Mom.

    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2004
    Location
    Nescopeck PA
    Posts
    1,843

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pintopiaffe View Post
    I am so sorry. I think you have every right to be upset over the treatment by Mom.

    I saw her today. I went to a show with my girls to watch. She was sitting maybe 15/20 feet from me. There weren't many spectators in the bleachers. Not a word to me. Oh well. Life is life. I know alot of you have said I'm not nearly as upset as you would be. But please realize I've had the last two weeks from hell. I lost a pony June 8th that died 15 minutes after it was discharged from the hospital, on the way home in the trailer. Right now my life feels pretty surreal....like a bad dream and I think I'm pretty numb about it all. However....that being said. I do look at my six healthy foals, and my two beautiful daughters and thank God that I have them to keep me positive. Oh and my 39 year old first pony is shedding out beautifully and doing awesome!
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2005
    Location
    Charlotte, NC and Wellington, FL
    Posts
    1,507

    Default

    This has really been a rough time for you. I read about your pony and am so sorry about both your losses. It's refreshing to hear from someone who takes the higher ground but I hope you will be able to set some rules regarding your pasture. It's about having respect for one's neighbor... these people are being terribly disrespectful to you and your family by behaving in this way.

    I think you could use some jingles.
    http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
    CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
    Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2004
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    847

    Default

    I agree with Showjumper's first post. However, "jingles" don't cut it for the STUPID 20 year old BABY of a human being. Feeling bad/guilty? Apologize? He is legal age. He can vote, he can drink, he can drive. He can make more kids like him. He knows better. Even if he doesn't know better about horses in particular, anyone knows it's cruel to chase ANY animal in a loud powerful vehicle that obviously scares the crap out of an animal.

    I would remove my horses ASAP. My experience has taught that once an idiot (with a kazillion invalid excuses), ALWAYS an idiot, and very likely to reoffend. Locks are not enough. Any adult or kid, for that matter (which he is NOT anymore), can break locks, in order to get the thrill they seek. Don't serial killers start out this way, tormenting and then killing animals? I realize that is the absolute extreme result of behaviour like this. But really. You can see where the kid gets the attitude from. Even though the "mother" has horses of her own, she doesn't have the balls to say anything to you or to compensate you for your loss or convince you that you need not seek legal advice for your loss. One would think that she would AT LEAST consider THAT.

    I would get a free consult with a lawyer to see what your rights are. You don't want this to happen again. But first, get your horses OUT OF THAT PLACE. There are no second chances when someone dies as a result of wantonly unresponsible behaviour. You are PAYING for a home for your horses. The definition of "home" is SECURITY and SAFETY from harm. Since this condition of your contract has been broken, you no longer need to pay until your loss has been recovered!!#@$ Yes, the more I think about this, the madder I get!!
    Dark Horse Farm



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2003
    Posts
    6,030

    Default

    I am so sorry.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
    Posts
    7,298

    Default

    Great parenting. I would have made him come help you BURY the foal so he could get up close and personal with the results of his behavior. And I would have kicked him out of the house as he clearly is incapable of appreciating his parents' and others' property (surprise me and tell me he DOESN'T live at home!). I doubt taking away his ATV is a huge punishment considering he's 20 and probably has a car to zoom around in terrorizing the populace. That stupid beeyotch is half the reason he's the way he is, Sr. is the other half.

    Jennifer



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    My son is 8 years old and knows better than that, but it's irrelevant.

    I am so sorry that this happened. You are a much bigger person than I, or most people could have been, to have held it together while the mom was freaking out. I hope at some point they realize that.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2000
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    12,748

    Default

    I am so sorry for your losses.
    As others have already said, I would lock the gates, put up no trespass signs (for what it's worth), and lodge a complaint with the police. They may not be able to do anything, but it will be on record.

    As others have already said too, the mother was out of line, and a 20 year old is not a child, but should be a man. Young men and women his age are dying in wars all over the world.

    I too would start looking for anothe set up immediately.

    take care



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