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  1. #1
    hotfilly Guest

    Default Thouroshire

    My dream horse has always been a Thouroshire (TB X Shire) and I now have to oportunity to breed one!!

    I have a friend that has a beautifull TB mare that has done very well as a mid level dressage horse and she has just got a bad injury, the vets have recomended 6 months off. So she was thinking about breeding her. The more we talked about it the more excited that I got. She is going to breed the mare to a Shire and I get the foal. I am paying all the extra breeding fees as well as the stud fee.

    Has anyone ever bred a Draft to a light mare and what are your experiences? Any one know of any nice Shire stallions???? We live on the BC, Alberta border. Shire stallions are pretty few and far between. We will be breeding AI for saftey as well as it is easy that shipping hte mare all over the place!

    Thanks for any help!!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    20,894

    Default

    Wow assuming the mare is a maiden it would scare me to breed to a draft first time out. I know they say that the uterus determines the size of the foal but my experience has been different. Best of luck to you.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    6,432

    Default

    I've seen mares have trouble birthing huge foals by stallions the same breed/size as them. I've also seen huge size differences with no problem. The first birth I was present for was a shetland mare bred to a 15hh arabian stallion and he was a tiny baby.

    I think it is important to educate yourself on the risks in general just so that you and the mare owner know what you are getting yourself into (assuming you don't but perhaps I am wrong as you don't indicate either way). When things go bad during foaling, they go very badly and there is always the (small) potential to end up with no mare or foal in the end. When mares don't want to get into foal, you can spend thousands and have no preggo mare and no foal. So make sure you think hard about your arrangement with your friend. What if it takes you several cycles to get her settled and then she loses the foal prematurely or she doesn't settle this year? Presumably your friend would want to put her mare back into work so how will you rebreed the following year? Or will you just throw all the expense away? Remember that for every breeding season the mare is tied up for around 1.5 years, so if you had to rebreed that would be a long time to tie up her horse

    Aside from that, it is an incredible experience!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,432



  5. #5
    hotfilly Guest

    Default

    The mare is not a maiden, she was bred about 5 years ago as a 3 year old, before my friend got her. I have spoke to the vet about what I have to do and I am ready. I know all the risks, I lived next door to a QH breeder growing up I have been fortunate enought to be involved in everything from breeding to prenatal care and foaling. I have seen the good the bad and the ugly......

    The mare was bred to a warmblood @ 3 and had a huge colt, no problem, she is one of those wait untill the barn check and the shoot a foal out so when the people get back to the house and look in the monotor they see a foal!!! LOL

    So far I have found a few stallions!

    this one in BC http://www.freewebs.com/oakshire_farm/

    and this one in AB http://www.stallionstation.com/ss/di...espeareshires/

    What do you think?????????



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2007
    Location
    Poulsbo, WA
    Posts
    927

    Default

    We have a thoroshire filly and I couldn't be happier with her:
    http://www.warmblood-color.com/Pages...eya/Freya.html

    She just turned 2 this year. She is very level headed, doesn't ever spook, and is always cheerful/up for a new adventure. She loves running around the pasture and jumping any logs or rocks she can find. The shire stallion did help with the tb mare's longer back and less than perfect neck set and feet (unfortunately her sire is no longer available though).

    I say go for it but be picky when looking for stallions. Look at their previous foals and make sure that they have been able to produce nice riding/sport horse crosses already. There are nice ones out there, good luck!
    Blacktree Farm
    Lessons, training & sporthorse sales. Proud supporter of our buckskin German Warmblood stallion, Yeager GF.
    Blacktree Studio
    Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2003
    Location
    North Texas, US
    Posts
    2,207

    Default

    I don't care for the conformation of Patriot for a sport horse. Lad looks more balanced to me. I would definitely would want to see pics of foals by the stallion out of TB mares.

    Depending on what you want to do with the foal, you might see if you can find a Thoroshire stallion to breed her to so you end up with 3/4 TB.

    Haven't visited it recently, but there used to be a site called draftsforsale.com that had stallion listings.
    www.debracysporthorses.com
    Home of Sea Accounts xx
    AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
    Location
    Catharpin, Virginia
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    I've have produced many Shire/TB's over the years. You really have to do your homework on matching stallions to mares however. My hard work paid off, they really turned out fantastic. No clunkiness. They are dressage mounts.

    I DO stand my Shire/TB stallion to cross with outside TB mares for those who want to produce (more predictably than the 50/50 cross) a more typey 3/4 TB - 1/4 shire sport horse. The result is a lighter cross that is more nibble for eventing and jumpers, as well as dressage.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2003
    Location
    COLORADO!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posts
    6,086

    Default

    I LOVE the thoroughshire crosses. We have a 3/4 TB 1/4 cross at our barn, and I have seen several others. Of the stallions you listed, I prefer stallion number 2. He has more of a sporthorse build overall than does #1 and Grayingham Lucky Lad was a SPECTACULAR horse himself who sired a lot of nice shires!

    A local friend breeds Thoroughdales, but I honeslty prefer the shire/TB crosses.

    Sid knows tons about this cross having produced is successfully for years. I wouldn't hesitate to take her advice and her stallion is really nice! I personally would prefer a 3/4 tb 1/4 shire. Much more of a "riding" type.

    Good luck!
    =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
    ~Jilltx~



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2003
    Location
    Davidsonville, MD
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    I DO stand my Shire/TB stallion to cross with outside TB mares for those who want to produce (more predictably than the 50/50 cross) a more typey 3/4 TB - 1/4 shire sport horse. The result is a lighter cross that is more nibble for eventing and jumpers, as well as dressage.
    I've met King's Camelot (at an RPSI inspection at sid's in 2005) and I have to say that he is a very handsome stallion - not at all clunky. I would agree that you might also consider a Shire/TB cross as the sire rather than straight Shire. If you do go with a straight Shire, I also agree with WC and Cyriz's Mom - get as much info as you can about TB cross offspring!

    Here's a Shire in Colorado that I've always thought looked nice: http://www.blackforestshires.com/horses/ideal.htm

    They used to have a different Shire stallion, Earnshaw Ideal - but it looks like they don't have him anymore...there are pics of his foals out of TB mares on the Mares and Foals page.
    Erin
    Dodon Farm - Home of Salute The Truth, Thoroughbred Stallion and on Facebook
    The Retired Racehorse Project, a 501(c)3 Non profit organization.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
    Location
    Catharpin, Virginia
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    If you go with a full Shire, the stallions I used after a massive search of practically every Shire stallion in the U.S. were Gronant King William and Garreg William. Garreg died at a relatively young age, and I don't know the status of Gronant King William. Last I knew Lillian Morris still owned him and they were in Colorado.

    Both stallions, BTW, were imported. One from England the other from Wales. I passed on using Grayingham Lucky Lad as I thought he was a bit too "hitchy" for what I wanted to produce. But he is a lovely horse.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    NW Louisiana
    Posts
    5,281

    Default

    I guess I am going to be the one who says try to find one to buy before breeding one. And there is a reason I think this way.

    My mare foaled a wonderful filly about 2.5 months ago. I really could not be happier with her. I wanted a foal to keep for myself out of MY mare, who I just love to death, and I wanted a 1/2 Lusitano or Andy foal. Textbook pregnancy, delivery, the whole deal.

    But even though I adore my filly, I would not do it again. When it is YOUR mare, there is so much worry, not only about something happening to mare and foal, but about the possibility of the mare aborting, or not quite getting what you wanted, or a difficult birth that ends up in the vet hospital with a $10k bill. I have lost over a year of riding time on my mare and she now looks like crap from nursing a very big and energetic filly. With the stud fee, vet bills (and I did live cover, so JUST ultrasound to check pregnancy and to make sure she had ovulated, and a brief treatment for a mild uterine infection), extra feed (did not count boarding since I would have the mare regardless)... I am up to $4500. My mare took on one cover, so I was lucky there. I foaled the mare out myself with the help of an experienced friend, so there was no cost for that. I could buy a 2-yo 1/2 Lusitano filly, by the same or a different stallion, for that.

    And I really adore my filly and I would never sell her. I am absolutely over the moon with how perfect she is, so there is no remorse for not ending up with quite what I had hoped. But next time I would definitely look to buy a youngster first. Especially with the market the way it is right now. And I would bet a draft cross foal or youngster would be even less expensive than a 1/2 Lusitano, since the Lusitano is still a pretty rare breed in this country. It just makes no logical sense to breed one.



  13. #13
    hotfilly Guest

    Default

    I liked the look of Patriot better I liked that he has a shorter back and a much smaller head.

    I have emailed both of the stallion owners and I have heard back from Patriots people, they are hoping to have a video of him under saddle up on youtube in the next month, I really like the looks of the arab foal by Patriot on his webste. I like that I can see him move in a video, what the hell did we do before youtube! lol He is being trained to do lower level dressage, which is what I will be looking for in my foal.

    I have not heard anything from Lads people yet....... I would like to see a few more pics of Lad as the pic in the link is quite dark



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,172

    Default

    I would be VERY careful about breeding something so wide to a generally narrow mare. The foal SIZE is regulated by the mare BUT the shoulder and pelvis width of the foal is genetic and will form in utero. If it get's the huge shoulders of the Shire.......
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,967

    Default

    Troika Drafts: http://www.troikadrafts.com/willy.html

    (I have no affiliation with them.)
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2002
    Location
    The Cliffs of Insanity
    Posts
    3,992

    Default

    I think I would be looking for a TB/Shire stallion instead of a PB Shire. You would get a lighter, more refined sport horse without sacrificing substance.


    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2007
    Location
    Sultan WA
    Posts
    899

    Default NORTON!

    http://www.roads-end-farm.net/

    THis guy is the real deal. He has a proven history of NICE sporthorse kids, his owners are wonderful, everything is good. Owner breeds her own TB and light horse mares to him, zero problems with foalings, so don't let those things scare you. Foal size is "mostly" predicated by the mare herself, for the most part.

    They are also close enough to you that you could see him in person before breeding!
    Homesick Angels Farm
    breeders of champion Irish Draught Sporthorses
    standing Manu Forti's Touch Down RID
    www.IrishHuntersandJumpers.com



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2000
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    1,611

    Default

    I would listen to Sid on this one. She's researched this cross very thoroughly and knows what works.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
    Location
    Catharpin, Virginia
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Chocomare -- I suspect the stallion "Prince William" is the son of Garreg William, who died in Maine. Just guessing because of his name and location. As I mentioned, Garreg was a stallion I used very successfully, but AGAIN with two very carefully chosen mares for him. He was taller than I preferred (18.3hh not yet mature at age 4), so was not suitable for a tall TB mare unless you don't mind riding with an oxygen mask (wink!).

    His TB offspring are quite "svelt", uphill, with lots of suspension, but not hitchy. Both Gronant King William and Garreg William offspring all moved back to front naturally. Maybe Gronant also has a son worth investigating, if the OP isn't interested in a 3/4 TB- 1/4 Shire.

    It would be super if the OP posted a conformation shot of the TB mare. I purposely bought mares with correct conformation except I looked for exceptionally long necks (that were set on correctly -- not a titch too low), and also with longish backs, good bone (no twiggy legs) and beautiful heads. I was lucky that I was able to see previous offspring of most of my mares (TB babies) before I bought them, so I could at least get an idea of what they might contribute.
    Last edited by sid; Jun. 19, 2008 at 07:30 PM.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15,536

    Default

    Actually, I liked Lad better, although I would second the 3/4 TB cross idea. Lad did not look as if he had the tendency to camp out behind and I felt was better balanced overall. (All in the eye of the beholder). A proven producer of sporthorses would give you a far better chance of getting the riding horse of your dreams, and they are out there.



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