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  1. #41
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    Nope. I'm not saying that things can't be done at the show. Between Wednesday and yesterday, we filled out USEF membership applications for both people and horses, USDF membership applications, USEF affidavits. All of this being done while inputting results into the computer.

    It certainly makes for a much more enjoyable show for everyone if the paperwork is complete prior to sending it in.

    As for standardizing the entry form, USDF region 1 has a standard form. If it makes it easier for everyone (at least in region 1) I will have it made into a 'fill-in-able' and put it on my website at www.Chesapeakeee.com.
    It would still have to be signed on the back (in all three places). We haven't worked out electronic signatures yet.

    USEF and USDF has made it very simple to print out all of the membership information necessary for making an entry. Just go to the joint verification and follow the directions. Information for the horse, owner and rider/handler for both organizations can be printed on one sheet of paper. Add the coggins (and a copy of the breed registry if entering an IBC) and your entry is complete.
    I support and enable the USA bred horse and the USA breeder.



  2. #42
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    Oct. 29, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    Substitute USHJA for USDF and the membership requirements are the same.
    If the exhibitor doesn't have a number for themselves, the rider or the horse they can apply for it at the show.
    Are you saying a DSHB exhibitor can't apply at a show?
    That does not mean she still does not have to send confirmation letters.

    Why would we want to make life harder by making check in be a nightmare? I'll tell you what, we do it your way, and you can go next time and stand in line for me.



  3. #43
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    Fairview normally I agree with you. But the fact is a "professional entry clerk" is PAID to perform her function and doesn't run the show on a "volunteer" basis.

    Lorik, an addendum sheet printed out could have been easily done, and SHOULD have been available, even if it is just ONE SHEET posted on the wall. You are getting remuneration for the professional entry clerk function, it isn't like you had to do it in your own spare time. Frankly, I had to inform the ring clerks that my horse was entered into the classes as even the ring clerks didn't have the correct information on the horses entered into the classes.

    The DSHB show entry form can be filled out, scanned in and saved as a PDF, and e-mailed...but then the Entry clerk has to be ACCEPTING of an entry which is e-mailed in PDF format. Food for thought perhaps?



    Perhaps before computer programs, entry clerking was more time consuming and those who volunteered had a hard time of it, and it was very thankless. BUT, if you are fully paid for your time, have the time to run for regional USDF office, as well as work another fully remunerated full time position, then perhaps you should be open to making changes in the system. Enable entries to be handled professionally up to one week prior to the show date, and without charging a fee consistant with the cost of 10 gallons of Diesel fuel!

    More people would be able to show their nice horses if they had the choice of entering later, and without the totally unnecessary heavy penality.

    The point of newbies not knowing how to enter or what is required, here is another intelligent thought provided to you free! Draw up an information sheet and including it with the prize list or post it on your website, that would be very valuable..."Here is what you will need if this is your first DSHB or Dressage show."

    I was fortunate that my first DSHB show 4 years ago, a very kind and knowledgeable show secretary took her valuable FREE time to sit down with me and explain everything that I needed to understanding, upon returning to USEF and USDF after many years. It was an extremely positive experience and one that I was extremely grateful for. By the way, it was a VADA/NOVA Show.

    Darlyn, I have shown for 4 years in DSHB show, doing an average of 3 to 5 shows per year, I have YET to stand in a check in line, more than a few moments.
    http://www.herselffarm.com
    Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
    "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporthorsefilly View Post
    But the fact is a "professional entry clerk" is PAID to perform her function and doesn't run the show on a "volunteer" basis.
    Is there a problem with calling her a secretary? That IS her job title.

    You are getting remuneration for the professional entry clerk function, it isn't like you had to do it in your own spare time.
    Actually, yes she does. She goes FAR above and beyond her job description, which is why she is MUCH NEEDED. She has done more for DSHB than anyone I can think of. She has fought long and hard for breeders to improve things.

    The DSHB show entry form can be filled out, scanned in and saved as a PDF, and e-mailed...but then the Entry clerk has to be ACCEPTING of an entry which is e-mailed in PDF format. Food for thought perhaps?
    I am sure all Secretaries would love this, but the USEF/USDF has to be willing to accept electronic signatures.


    Perhaps before computer programs, entry clerking was more time consuming and those who volunteered had a hard time of it, and it was very thankless. BUT, if you are fully paid for your time, have the time to run for regional USDF office, as well as work another fully remunerated full time position, then perhaps you should be open to making changes in the system.
    OK, this has now gone off into a personal attack, so I will just stop right here, except to say, I know you have had issues with a late entry at Devon a few years ago, so you do know about closing dates.

    Enable entries to be handled professionally up to one week prior to the show date, and without charging a fee consistent with the cost of 10 gallons of Diesel fuel! More people would be able to show their nice horses if they had the choice of entering later, and without the totally unnecessary heavy penality.
    You know what? The saddest part of this is that there is ONE person in this world that MAY have the connections and will to actually fight for US to have this done, and trashing her publicly is not putting DSHBers in a place that she will want to spend even more of her personal time and energy to change the system. SHE IS who has gotten MANY things done.
    .
    Darlyn, I have shown for 4 years in DSHB show, doing an average of 3 to 5 shows per year, I have YET to stand in a check in line, more than a few moments.
    You have never stood in line at Devon before LoriK took over. I have. I don't want to go back. I like having someone in that office that somehow manages to smile no matter how much pressure she is under.



  5. #45
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    sporthorsefilly,
    There was an updated list posted on the wall where the results were posted.
    I support and enable the USA bred horse and the USA breeder.



  6. #46
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    sporthorsefilly,
    I just checked the order of go that the ring stewards had and that was posted on the wall and your horse was on it first in the 2year old filly class at 9:04 AM.

    As to doing these shows in my spare time, I do indeed have a full time job as a biochemist for Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics. I was in the lab on Monday and I'm back at work today (waiting for reagents to do more testing).

    As I stated earlier, I would love to accept electronic entries, but until USEF accepts electronic signatures, I must have hard copies with three original signatures. When that requirement changes, so will I. I have already pioneered the blanket handler release so that the owner doesn't have to chase down the professional handler's signature.

    As a show secretary, I am paid to follow the prize list. And, just for the record, the closing date for these two shows was extended.

    If you look at the back of the region one entry form, it contains a checklist of items that must be included with your entry. Even someone new to showing could go down that checklist. I have always been available to answer questions. My voicemail at home includes my cell phone number so that if someone needs to get in touch with me, they can.

    There is one foolproof way of avoiding any late fees. Just enter before the closing date.
    I support and enable the USA bred horse and the USA breeder.



  7. #47
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    Jun. 23, 2004
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    Loudoun County, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
    Nice try at backpedaling. Your comment was indeed directed at me. You know nothing about my involvement with the equestrian community but you do enjoy making assumptions, don't you.
    .

    You really have a nerve. My comment was directed exactly as I said it was. I don't need to backpedal, because if I had a problem with you specifically I would not hesitate to let you know that. I do have a problem with the nasty tone that you bring to this Board. This sporthorse breeders forum generally is frequented by people who support eachother, and don't rip each other to threads. So try directing your malcontent at whoever peed in your cheerios, not us.

    Furthermore, of course I know nothing about you except what you have chosen to reveal in your posts. And it appears from these that you may very well be familiar with HB, but know little or nothing about DSHB, or about some of the considerations that might make it necessary to have entries in by a certain date (for example, your arguments regarding working off a trailer when showing youngsters during a long show day really makes me wonder if you have ever handled babies at a show, or have any clue what that would entail for someone who is not arriving with a trainer and show barn entourage in tow).

    Just one more observation. Generally, I find that people who have experience and have achieved anything worth talking about are not arrogant and haughty and do not delight in putting others down. You don't see people like Denny Emerson posting stuff with a tone approaching anything you have written here or on other threads, yet Denny has from time to time pointed out areas in need of improvement in terms of competition management, for example. Ditto for Lendon Gray and others who post here.
    Last edited by YankeeLawyer; Jun. 20, 2008 at 11:45 AM.



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporthorsefilly View Post

    The DSHB show entry form can be filled out, scanned in and saved as a PDF, and e-mailed...but then the Entry clerk has to be ACCEPTING of an entry which is e-mailed in PDF format. Food for thought perhaps?
    I have one small request...please, please will shows start using an electronic entry form that can be filled out on the computer (there are PDF forms that allow you to type in fields, or just use Word)? It takes forever to fill out multiple entry forms for multiple horses. It would be so much more efficient for exhibitors to be able to fill them out on computer, and the forms would be more legible for show secretaries.

    Edited to add: I just noticed Fairview's point with regard to electronic signatures. If anyone else also thinks being able to do entries electronically would help, I would be happy to write the USEF about it.
    Last edited by YankeeLawyer; Jun. 20, 2008 at 01:08 PM.



  9. #49
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    Actually Darlyn, I have stood on line more than a few minutes to check in and also stood for a lengthy time to get results for ONE class...that was at Devon in 2004. Which is why, going 3.5 hours to Devon to me, is NOT worth the trip.

    Lorik the ring clerks did NOT have my number for either the 2 yr old fillies or the PHR class.

    I had NO intention of entering VADA/NOVA, but decided to enter, to AVOID having to trailer to FAIR HILLS. Consideration being given to the confort of the horse and also to the cost of diesel.

    As for entering shows on time, I am fully aware of how, when and where.

    My taste in horse flesh tends toward Hunters...has for nearly 50 years. I was taken back by the fact that HB shows can be entered two days prior...just like the "old days" when every thing appeared to run smoothly...without the aid of a laptop!

    I commend you for your tireless efforts with the DSHB shows, though I am sure it helps to be paid for everything you do.

    Darlyn, this thread is not about personalities, it is the absolute fact that it is unnecessary to close a show a month ahead of time and beyond comprehension to charge a late fee of $50! This is sucking money out of people unnecessarily. You yourself have said that you can't afford to do many shows, which is why you only go to DAD.

    Obviously, there are those who probably feel the same way, but don't want to step on the almighty toes. I tell the truth, and make my statements. Frankly, I could have entered both days if the $50 fee wasn't in place...still want to know WHY any show needs to charge $50 for a late entry?

    NO, the ring stewards who were taking numbers to go, did NOT have my number for either class...
    http://www.herselffarm.com
    Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
    "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro



  10. #50
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    Jan. 24, 2005
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    Just as a quick note...both the entries forms for Fair Hill and DAD are fillable PDFs. All you need to do once they are filled and printed is sign where necessary.

    If anyone would like, in Region 1, to have a blank fillable form, usable for any show, pm me and I will send it to you.



  11. #51
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    LOL this is ridiculous, what a childish bunch of BS...

    If I check in 5 horses, without signatures,and missing paperwork, it takes 10 minutes to hand it in, sign all and complete my numbers. IF EVERYONE does this it takes almost 3 1/2 hours of the secretary's time JUST to check in 100 horses. To post enter just ONE horse takes approximately 10-15 minutes, as ALL the info required must be entered into the database.

    Handlers must generally sign all of these entries AT THE SHOW, since often their horses are hours away when entered., so secretaries must also take the time to pull ALL entries for each of the professional handlers, another time consuming job.

    I think a $50 late fee is realistic. Secretaries at these bend over backwards for those who pre enter, and often extend closing dates, AS WAS DONE FOR THIS SHOW. The 99 horses who DO enter on time should not be punished at check in by those who enter late, or post enter, unless it benefits the host.

    When are these secretaries supposed to score classes, and post results?

    I think staff( professional and volunteer) at these shows have explored and continue to explore the best possible way to handle anything they can.
    Normal DSHB show staff:
    Secretary
    2 stewards
    2 scribes
    runner
    2-3 scorers
    announcer
    Stabling Secretary
    Manager
    awards table
    poster

    TOTAL MINIMUM 14 PEOPLE

    HB DIVISION, Secretary staff( for whole show), Ring Steward, Awards person, Announcer 3 1/2 PEOPLE

    Since these shows survive mostly on volunteers, you must remember that a DSHB show requires WAY more staff than an HB show, and not all who volunteer are the least bit familiar with how a DSHB show works, and learn while doing. While I volunteer wherever possible at these shows, you could not pay me enough to endure the BS they endure in order to provide DSHB shows for us breeders.
    Last edited by MagicRoseFarm; Jun. 20, 2008 at 12:33 PM.
    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB



  12. #52
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    I agree that this entire thread is idiotic and childish. I have never had a problems getting in entries on time. I also recognize that if I am late, I make a headache for management and will need to pay the toll.

    I was involved with the founding and later the running of a GMO for 30 years. I was show secretary or show manager many, many times. I have seen the show scene go from a friendly one where volunteers are appreciated and treated well to one where a person has to have a strong passion for the sport plus a little streak of lunacy to help out. The diatribe here is a perfect example.

    Closing dates are for the convenience of the management. Most competitors do not send in entries until the closing date, so that opens a floodgate and the flood takes time to manage. The late fees are to highly discourage late entries. <duh> If you don't like that way a show is run, go to another one or, better yet, run one yourself. That will open your eyes rather quickly.

    And, if anyone thinks that show personnel that are paid are being paid a rate that truly pays well for the job, I have some lovely dry real estate for you in Florida.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporthorsefilly View Post

    NO, the ring stewards who were taking numbers to go, did NOT have my number for either class...
    Having volunteered on both the front and backside of these shows, whichever volunteer loaded the steward's clipboards with the day sheets possibly did not use the most current daysheet, not an issue involving the secretarial staff of the show....

    Having been a ring steward at DSHB, throughout any one day there are numerous adds and scratches that cannot appear on a day sheet that is loaded prior to the day's start. It is not a crisis to page the office for verification, and happens all the time.


    As an entrant in any class, it is our own responsibility to be at the ring on time for our own class, listen for announcements and class calls, and be aware of time change variations from the program due to scratches, adds, and normal glitches.

    In HB, the announcer announces from the office the numbers expected in a class, the judge does a head count and the class begins, very different than DSHB.
    Last edited by MagicRoseFarm; Jun. 20, 2008 at 12:29 PM.
    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB



  14. #54
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    I'm in total agreement with Home Again Farm on this and can't believe the utter rudeness displayed by a couple of the posters here.

    My question to you is - how do you handle late fees on your credit card bills? Do you vent your anger on a public BB about it? Do you call the credit company a bunch of lowly clerks that should be at your beck and call? And finally, would any of that make a difference whatsoever?

    You sound like a bunch of spoiled brats that throw hissy fits when they don't get what they want.

    As a competitor in this past breed show at Morven Park I have nothing but praise for the way it was handled. Lori certainly went above and beyond the call of duty when it came to helping me out.

    And sporthorsefilly.... that was my 2-year old that won the class on Wednesday!! :-) :-) :-)
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  15. #55
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    This thread was to address WHY there is a month long closing date, and also WHY the post entry fee is extremely high. PERIOD!!!

    One has only to look at some of the other discussions on both this forum and the other COTH forums to see that the economy is have an effect! Both on shows and also on breeding. While a late fee is to discourage entering late there is no reason to charge in excess of ONE class fee. I still didn't get an answer as to why the fee is so high nor who profits from it.

    There are fillable entry forms, and even without electronic signatures, one might petition to have a PDF signature be acceptable to the powers that be in USEF and USDF. That would certainly help an antiquated system that requires using snail mail.

    The cultural differences between hunter people and dressage people is quite broad. One doesn't want to listen, hear or learn from the other. It is also a known fact that hunters are about 60% of the show horse culture. Post entries are a fact of life, in all shows.

    Calling any discussion "idiotic and childish" shows that "change" of any kind is not welcome.
    Bravo for getting your entries in on time. Every entry requires time, if you get paid for what you do, you don't have any reason to consider your paid time a headache. Simply put, if you don't like the job, quit! If you love what you do, then do it well.

    Seigi, congratulations how truly wonderful :-) :-) :-) What has this got to do with the discussion?

    So back to the actual discussion:

    WHY do DSHB shows in this region close a month ahead of time?

    WHY do post entry fees which are set by the show management (not USEF or USDF) need to be in excess of one entry fee???
    http://www.herselffarm.com
    Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
    "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post

    And sporthorsefilly.... that was my 2-year old that won the class on Wednesday!! :-) :-) :-)
    Congratulations! That must have been your gorgeous Florencio!



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporthorsefilly View Post
    So back to the actual discussion:

    WHY do DSHB shows in this region close a month ahead of time?

    WHY do post entry fees which are set by the show management (not USEF or USDF) need to be in excess of one entry fee???
    It closes early to make the job of running the show easier, and able to be done by less people. The fee is a deterrant. The same reason if you board in my barn and want to provide your own grain that I will not take off for the grain I am not feeding - I can't do that for everyone. My barn has to run smoothly, and it won't if everyone had their own grain. The show needs to run smoothly, and it won't if everyone enters very late.



  18. #58
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    Default posted on Breeding in this economy...

    "I think the shows over the next 6 months will be a huge indicator for the horse industry. If entries start dropping off significantly." Well Said!


    So anyone think that charging high post entry fees is really a great idea?????
    http://www.herselffarm.com
    Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
    "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro



  19. #59
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    quote Fairview: "It closes early to make the job of running the show easier, and able to be done by less people. The fee is a deterrant." end of quote.

    I work in a high pressure, get it done environment. Sorry, I get paid for what I do, and I don't get to charge people for the work that they need NOW.

    A Professional Show Secretary gets paid for what she does. A reasonable fee is a deterrant, a very high fee tells me something else.
    http://www.herselffarm.com
    Proud of my Hunter Breeding Princesses
    "Grief is the price we all pay for love," Gretchen Jackson (1/29/07) In Memory of Barbaro



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporthorsefilly View Post
    I work in a high pressure, get it done environment. Sorry, I get paid for what I do, and I don't get to charge people for the work that they need NOW.
    So do I. And we have firm, non-negotiable deadlines on most if not all things that I work on. A late fee would not even cure a late filing -- if you are late, you are SOL.



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