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  1. #21

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    I have never been to the auction but would love to go. What is the average going price range of the young ponies 1-3 yr olds?



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2008
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    next to the Devon H.S. & what was the Radnor Hunt 3 Day
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietly View Post
    Actually last year I believe they ended up at the same or higher than usual. It just started really, really slow.
    I believe the most expensive pony went 3rd and was sold in the 30's

    Dont quote me though!
    "Lucky you to have ridden Kildonan Tug- Luckier you to have loved him"
    "Carrying you to prelim was the jewel in Tug's crown."
    "Great horses find you. You don't find them."



  3. #23
    Join Date
    May. 6, 1999
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    10,421

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    Drat! I'm supposed to be starting an entirely NON-HORSE (or pony) vacation and here I am, sitting at a Comfort Inn public computer typing a response to a BB discussion!

    And I haven't even checked out the breakfast bar yet.

    (sigh)

    $30K for the top seller, hmmm...But silly me, I should have done some homework on my own question--no time (well, too hungry) to do so now, but I will look into the sales order and sales results to see if there's any correlation there.

    Meanwhile, though, the reason why I still haven't had my breakfast: young ponies??? See, there I have yet another misconception, apparently, for I thought for a while there that there was a signficant push to have only going ponies--ones with some show ring miles--at this sale, while the younger ones were encouraged to go to the breeders sale.

    Have there been many, say, under-5-years-old ponies at the finals sale? Again, I know I can look it up, but, geezum, a girl has to eat.
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2003
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    770

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    Pwynn, there are plenty of younger ones in the Pony Finals sale. All WTC at least, IIRC.

    It would be interesting and educational for someone to do an analysis of what ponies were entered into this sale (say by age group) and what they sold for for the last several years; might find some trends that aren't readily apparent. Maybe after summer camp is over I'll undertake that project.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec. 26, 2003
    Location
    NC,USA
    Posts
    1,544

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    Click on the results from the 2007 Auction
    http://www.professionalauction.com/results07.htm

    Professional Auction does a great job of breaking the sale results down by Age, Mare/Geldings, Size, High Sellers, Averages, numbers sold by leading sires etc etc.

    The high seller last year was Rosecroft St. Nick, a 3yr old large for $61,500. The 2nd highest was Little White Dove a medium 5 yr old mare, buckskin appy bought by Peter Pletcher.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    2,383

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    Be sure to look at how many nosales there are.There are usually many. Some info is available on the sale company website.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 2007
    Location
    Upstate, New York
    Posts
    174

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    Showpony,

    Your 3 year old is stunning, I have had my eye on her for a little while, but I have a full barn. I will have to sit on my hands at the auction.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2003
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    770

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    [quote=Lives2Jump;3297529]Click on the results from the 2007 Auction
    http://www.professionalauction.com/results07.htm

    Professional Auction does a great job of breaking the sale results down by Age, Mare/Geldings, Size, High Sellers, Averages, numbers sold by leading sires etc etc. [quote]

    Yes they do but I meant doing it over several years worth of results.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2008
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Neither of the top 2 selling ponies went third. I know that Peter's was about an hour from the end and I think the Rosecroft pony was about half an hour from the end. I could be wrong about that one though.



  10. #30

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    I have been kicking around whether to send our small down to the sale. She is showing in the Childrens and doing nicely. Not a world beater but getting ribbons. But our daughter is out growing her quickly. With the price of gas, hotel ect or even to hand her off to a consigner and pay the commission I don't know if it is worth it. Then if we don't get what we want we have to eat the expense and bring her home. Last year some people were disappointed and some were happy but that is how all sales go. I went to a TB sale in Pa and is was a disaster. We ended up RNA our mares and bringing them home. It was an expensive weekend for us. They were giving away mares, yearlings, broke and galloping 2yr olds. The economy is so fickle right now.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2006
    Location
    Berryville, VA
    Posts
    2,812

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    I have a 2yo large pony filly that I'm debating on taking. She is fancy, fancy and is by a very popular sire out of an extremely well-bred dam. I would like to take her, but I'm worried about prices with this economy. What do you guys think about bringing an unbroken prospect. She looks to be "the hack winner" and I can do a video free-jumping her if needed. We're taking her to Warrenton to show on the line in two weeks. Decisions. Decisions.
    Boarding for Show, Pleasure, and Retirement horses. www.LockeMeadows.com



  12. #32
    Join Date
    May. 30, 2000
    Location
    MARYLAND
    Posts
    1,425

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    Quote Originally Posted by etopolsk View Post
    Showpony,

    Your 3 year old is stunning, I have had my eye on her for a little while, but I have a full barn. I will have to sit on my hands at the auction.

    But what fun would that be?....and thank you. I sent the entry in today.
    ~*Adult Pony Rider Clique*~
    www.timberrunponies.com



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,245

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    I just finished sending in my application to sell my small pony at the Pony Finals Auction. It absolutely breaks my heart to sell him, but our business is slow and someone needs to go. He's the fanciest one and worth the most, so off he goes.

    My trainer just emailed me this picture of him. How the heck am I supposed to part with a pony that is this cute? He moves amazing, jumps great and has auto changes. I'm out of my mind for selling him, right?

    http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...84673271Bivott



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2008
    Posts
    50

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    2007 American Hunter Pony Classic Sets New Records
    The 2007 American Hunter Pony Classic posted increases in several major categories. “This was
    a great auction. The buyers were active from beginning to end.” said Tim Jennings, Marketing
    Director of Professional Auction Services, Inc. “The catalog featured the best group of ponies the
    sale has ever offered.” World Records were set for Average Sale Price at $13,463 and Median
    Sale Price at $11,000.
    A three year old gelded son of Land’s End Poseidon was the high selling pony at $61,500.
    Rosecroft St Nick, a gray large pony, was sold by Leading Consignor Richard Taylor’s Venture
    Stable as agent for Gary Baker’s Rosecroft Farm. He was purchased by Leading Buyer Mitzi
    Treske, DVM, who purchased eight ponies for $121,100. Rosecroft St Nick was Reserve
    Champion Three-Year-Old at The Devon Horse Show in 2007 and was a two-time USEF Zone 3
    Champion on the line.
    An Appaloosa Medium Pony mare was second High Seller at $52,000. Little White Dove, a five year
    old buckskin mare, was sold by Prue Richardson’s Northwind Farm as agent for Susan Pritchard
    Lang and Shirra Simhoni. She was purchased by Peter Pletcher. “This mare is a phenomenal
    jumper,” said Jennings. “I expect that this one will be a star. She went to a top flight program.”
    Little White Dove had been a Zone Champion in Canada and was Qualified for the 2007 Pony
    Finals.
    The High Selling Small Pony was Superman, a five year old Section A Welsh, who was sold by
    Kelly Ward-Creagh to Scott Stewart late in the sale for $44,500. “It’s great to see Leading Trainers
    like Scott come to the sale,” stated Jennings. “He is a great horseman and Superman should
    flourish in the show ring for him.”
    The High Selling two year old was Challengers Never More Lovely, a Half Welsh filly by Pengwyn.
    The filly was sold for $16,500 by Bill Schaub’s Over The Hill Farm as agent for Jennifer Taylor’s
    Challenger Farms to Leading Buyer, Mitzi Treske, DVM. Challengers Never More Lovely was
    second in her class at The Devon Horse Show in 2007 and won Devon and Upperville as a foal.
    Two social functions highlighted the sale activities. A “summer cookout” was held during the
    preview and a reception was held during the sale. the events were sponsored by several
    consignors including Richard Taylor’s Venture Stables, Stacey Schaefer's Shadow Ridge, Bill
    Schaub’s Over The Hill Farm, Karen Zinkhan’s Bit By Bit Stable, Harmony Ridge, Maye Show
    Ponies and Devaux Farms.
    The American Hunter Pony Classic was produced by Professional Auction Services, Inc. of
    Berryville, Virginia. The auction firm was formed in 1978 and has produced over 250 auctions
    selling 50,000 horses and ponies for $170,000,000.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug. 27, 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    41

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    Quietly is correct. Rosecroft and Little White Dove went toward the end of the sale. The #3 pony was highest sold for awhile but that $30+K price did not stand for too long. Some ponies went for under $10K others wenter higher. The ponies that had some history of winning on the line or able to be shown under saddle were bringing the best prices. I would suggest at least getting some under saddle work going if the pony is old enough.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    May. 6, 1999
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    10,421

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCoyle View Post
    Quietly is correct. Rosecroft and Little White Dove went toward the end of the sale. The #3 pony was highest sold for awhile but that $30+K price did not stand for too long. Some ponies went for under $10K others wenter higher. The ponies that had some history of winning on the line or able to be shown under saddle were bringing the best prices. I would suggest at least getting some under saddle work going if the pony is old enough.
    Indeed, JCoyle, I think what you say (I've bolded the key concept) is going to be especially significant this year--and should be calculated into the profit margin, too.

    I know, I know that I'm going to get smacked around quite a bit for saying this, but I have to discount the top-selling pony in the statistics. I believe that one should be considered a genuine "outlier." All the usual BNTs were involved and the pony was well-known. It didn't need to go through the sale. It's obvious that it would have created a "bidding war" even without the sale. I don't begrudge those for producing it, but 1.) when factoring in the AVERAGES of the sale (I'm referring to statistics here--remember the academic in me, OK?), it's price should be excluded to get a real feel for the mean and median; and also 2.) for decisionmaking purposes, I really do think one has to look at the industry kinda in the same light as some of the conversations we've had about hunter breeding--it's not a level playing field and that just has to be accepted. Indeed, #2 is why I'd argue that the top seller should always be considered at outlier, statistically speaking.

    Anyway, looking at the higher sellers, all were at least four and all but Kelly's had some form of mileage--and most sold in the $20s.

    Now, including shipping, I just got done spending...what? maybe $2-3K (Yep, shipping is the killer there--and it's going to CONTINUE to be!)...on a pony to do the unrateds at Atlanta. If he sold at the sale in the $20s, which would be reasonable given his traits -- or maybe a touch less, depending on the economy and what else was there -- given that he's four, it's just not enough profit when you add up what it's taken to get him where he is (as a small, riders have been a challenge, so that's costly, too--when you don't have your own, that is).

    This is what is going through my mind right now: profit margins now vs. in the future. It's the great, big roll of the dice, of course--but I've gotten used to that, thankfully.

    Think about the 2007 higher-selling ponies. Many had shown--far, far more than mine--and yet they "only" got into the $20s. Is that worth it? I truly, truly don't know. It's hard to get a feel for it. I've heard of an awful lot of ponies like mine getting into the $20s without a consignment fee attached (but, yes, with a pro or two's fee(s) in there somewhere).

    That's the roll of the dice I really mean when it comes to NOT entering. Adding it all up and looking at the past, I think -- especially with a four-year-old -- I'll end up doing better selling privately OR hanging on, aiming for the finals next year in the greens, and seeing where that might take things. The "roll" is whether I'll get more out than I put in and if that difference will be better or worse than could be had at the sale this year.

    OK, so the end result of my stream-of-consciousness here is that I'd rather roll the dice. Maybe the economy will stabilize and consumer's attitude's will improve after the election.

    And if it doesn't? Well, I'm mighty glad I'm single, so losing a ton of dough on our little "stock market" will only hurt me, not others. I can't imagine how breeders with families make these decisions. Must be tough indeed.
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    May. 6, 1999
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    Ocala, FL
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    Then again...

    I took a closer look at the 2007 stats and did notice something a little troublesome about my "roll": nearly half of the 5, 6, and 7 year olds (by age category) were no sales.

    Now, at that age, you'd expect the pony to have been doing a fair bit, right? Sooooo, do you think those no sales relate to my concerns about profit margins (or just breaking EVEN perhaps)? Or do they reflect expectations that were just too high for the market?

    Eeek, I just realized what I wrote--the last two questions--are bad news no matter which might be the case.

    Bottom line is that I truly, truly hope the sale does well. I hope it can be used as an indicator that "our" market is insulated, perhaps. There is that belief/myth/truism???, after all, about who gets hurt the most by a poor economy (and it ain't those who buy pricey ponies ).
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.



  18. #38
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    JMO but I wouldn't take one too green over. This sale does allow the lots to be tried individually by prospective buyers in a show situation with a ring set aside, with jumps, for this purpose.

    There is something to be said for an auction where the child rider can actually try the thing in the show setting it is being purchased for.

    Many consigners also bring the Pony in for the 2 regular AAs in the weeks before so bidders are real familiar with what is being presented by the time they step into that sales ring. That's also why some of the best sounding Ponies never get to that ring, purchased privately for enough to cover whatever the withdrawel fee is.

    I did see several of the no sales, not all of course, being tried and they seemed just too green for the kidlets. Some really fancy but the kid couldn't ride them.

    Methinks this is a better place for the broke and been going for a few years then the green needing mileage before the average kid gets aboard.

    I'm with Pwynn on the games sometimes played with prices at auctions despite honest and on the level sales companies. Been around too long not to know that. Sales average for similar would be a better guage, not the sale toppers like last years little buckskin app that was quite spectacular IMO. Surpised that one did not go privately.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2005
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    Floral City , Fl.
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    PWynn: From what I have heard over the years about the pony sale, the "PACKERS", on the whole sell for a decent amount. I am not totally meaning "packer" in the sense they had years of experience. The ones who went out with the numerous kids trying them and did not act witchy or silly, or spooky or stop were tried most. If you had a young one and it had not been out and about at all (or much) and all of the hub-bub of activity just made them not pay attention or heaven forbid, if they stopped, most likely that was the one that sold (or no saled) for 5k.

    Some of the pony's went to the sale with "history" behind them. In advance I knew which ones NOT to bid on and what the "holes" in them were. Just horse show gossip.

    I am not looking to buy, but if I was, I might look at the Pony Finals Sale. Some good deals can be had for the buyers. Last year so many were "no-sales" and think what that cost the seller!!! Just my 2 cents worth!
    Sandy
    www.sugarbrook.com
    hunter/jumper ponies



  20. #40
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    Jun. 7, 2005
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    Charleston, SC
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    Sandy, you are right. Last year there were some beautiful ponies that did not sell because they were too hard for a kid to do or they were an iffy size - like a 3 yr old crossbred right at 14.2hh. Most people were not interested so much in a show record on a young pony - say 3 to 5 yrs old - but were more interested in whether the kid could get right on and ride that pony around at least a simple course. And of course, if the pony was beautiful, a great mover and had a lead change, the show record didnt seem to matter if a kid could do the ride.
    Quicksilver Farms, LLC
    "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
    Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
    Fancy Show Pony Prospects
    www.quicksilverponies.com



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