[faluut42]

So heres another one...

Hes 16hds, 7 years old, started 48 times, sound except he he banged his knee on the start gate. I havent called yet because I keep going back on forth on him because his pic is a typical track pic... not very good.

He looks kind awful in it, but there are are a few things I quite like. His hind end (shape) reminds me a lot of my mares. Which she is a very nice mover and an very good jumper. Overall looks like he could have nice confo. Back looks pretty strong, and I like his breeding (especially his sire, great confo) quite a bit). His neck doesnt look like its set on too low.

Here are my worries. He looks like he could have a straight shoulder, stifle too high, and too butt high to be able to use step under well. His neck might be too short.

So heres the pic.
http://www.canterusa.org/ohio/images...oftheblock.jpg

Heres his breeding.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/talk+of+the+block

Tell me what you think. TIA!

[tikidoc]

The first thing that comes to mind to me is butt high, and at 7, he won't grow out of it.

[shea'smom]

jeez, that is a bad picture. Hard to tell anything.
Maybe if you call, they would send you some more pics?

[faluut42]

yeah, Im hoping the way hes standing has to do with the butt highness...

i think i will just call tomorrow (well today), cant hurt anything. And I want to find out exactly what the knee thing is.

[evntr06]

His butt may not be as high as it seems. His hind end is much closer to the camera, and any body part that's closer to the camera will appear bigger. You definitely need another picture to make correct assessment.

[c_expresso]

I like the look of the horse... but 7 years old and 48 starts? That would run me off. 3 or 4 is good, sometimes a 5 year old... and MAYBE if they have had hardly ANY starts a 6 year old. 48 starts is a lot, my friend who regularly buys OTTBs tries to make sure they have run 5 or less races.

[Ajierene]

I think his butt is just closer to the camera, not high. I think the angle of his neck makes it look like it is shorter than it is. Overall, I don't think it is a really good picture to properly evaluate him. Maybe they can send you more.

[eloquence09]

I like the look of the horse... but 7 years old and 48 starts? That would run me off. 3 or 4 is good, sometimes a 5 year old... and MAYBE if they have had hardly ANY starts a 6 year old. 48 starts is a lot, my friend who regularly buys OTTBs tries to make sure they have run 5 or less races.

My old ottb ran until he was 7 and had 84 starts. His legs were clean as an be. I evented him up through prelim and he's the soundest horse I've ever owned (despite terrible feet a la Big Brown). He is now...14 I think and still going strong at novice/training with his new owner. I feel like the ones who race longer and stay sound, you just can't break them haha!

As for this horse, you really need to ask for a better picture. Nothing from what I can tell looks glaringly awful but it's really hard to critique when he isn't stood up properly.

[beeblebrox]

WEll,

you mention his sire having great conformation well sadly that does not matter as this horse does not.

I see you are in california, there is a canter there now and you can get horses all day long NICE ones all over california without going to Ohio for a over used one

While the picture is not ideal there are enough warning signs. I am not seeing a strong back you mention and I am seeing a horse that is down hill and for me whose neck comes out of his body way too low (yes it is straight up now in the picture but take a look at where it connects to his body and he is down hill to boot)

MOSTLY though even muscled for the track (which changes) he gives you the impression of being 2 1/2 horses that have been glued together!

I would PASS

[beeblebrox]

"Ajierene

I think his butt is just closer to the camera, not high. I think the angle of his neck makes it look like it is shorter than it is."

How close his butt is to the camera does not change the white line on the barn behind him. Look at how it runs though his body.

[tikidoc]

He is also still a stallion. I think you could do a lot better, and if you are in California, a lot closer as well.

[Gry2Yng]

I think the picture is so poor it is impossible to make any judgement.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Bad picture but I would go and look at him. He has decent breeding and I like that he is still sound after so may starts. Most of the really good eventers that I knew/know had a lot of starts.

[Bogie]

I like the look of the horse... but 7 years old and 48 starts? That would run me off. 3 or 4 is good, sometimes a 5 year old... and MAYBE if they have had hardly ANY starts a 6 year old. 48 starts is a lot, my friend who regularly buys OTTBs tries to make sure they have run 5 or less races.

Gosh, it's such a shame when people write off horses just because they've run a lot of races. If a horse has raced until 7 and has 48 starts and is sound, then he's tough as nails.

I had a mare that raced till 7 and had 55 starts -- she was completely sound and had clean x-rays. I've seen several others, too, who had 50+ starts and stayed sound and were retrained to be successful at new careers. I believe that Courageous Comet had 36 starts and look at him!. My current OTTB raced until he was 6 and had, if I'm correct, about 30 starts. He retired with a small injury but has been completely sound since.

As for this particular horse, the photo is terrible. I'm not sure that I'd make a huge effort to go look at him unless he was around the corner unless I saw a better picture.

[wingedmare]

Well, first of all, not to offend anyone, but be very very very careful of dealing with CANTER out of Ohio; if you are interested in this horse you need a whole batch of photos, video of movement and a vet check; depending where in ohio this horse is I may be able to have someone look at him for you personaly and recomend a vet to do the exam. In my exprience the CANTER horses are usualy run down horses with problems that the owners were unable to sell right off the track and so they send them to CANTER and in Ohio this is a warning sign as most of the OTTB's are snatched right up and bought right off the track or bought (or are donated to) by the multitude of equestrian schools (including the one I went to).

Secondly, that picture, while it is bad shows me a few things I really dislike: his back was already mentioned. Also he is pretty lady waisted and it looks like he is a bit behind the knee on the left. But then it is a shoddy pic.

But let me know if you want my Ohio contacts to look at him for you!

[caffeinated]

wingedmare, I think this horse is still at the track. In other words, for sale by trainer, not a horse that was "sent to CANTER" (and in my experience horses donated to canter are not any "worse" or more "run down" than horses for sale at the track. Some owners in the M-A area donate them simply because CANTER can screen buyers better than they can and do a better job of guarantee-ing a good home)

In any case, getting other pictures will be hard- you may just have to go see him- if it's convenient, that would be the way to go. We had a horse listed here that in one picture looked very similar- it was just bad positioning and the horse was standing cramped up like that. But IRL he was a real classy looking horse- we fortunately had better photos to replace it with, but if that's not the case here the only way to get a better "look" is probably to actually go see him.

[wingedmare]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;3275577]wingedmare, I think this horse is still at the track. In other words, for sale by trainer, not a horse that was "sent to CANTER" (and in my experience horses donated to canter are not any "worse" or more "run down" than horses for sale at the track. Some owners in the M-A area donate them simply because CANTER can screen buyers better than they can and do a better job of guarantee-ing a good home)
QUOTE]

Just an observation in my dealings with the CANTER people I've dealt with in Ohio. One of my barns housed alot of the CANTER horses and I did see some shadey things just to place horses. That was a few years back and there may be different people doing it now, just putting it out there.

But like I said, I still have lots of connections in OH and could possibly set up someone to check the horse out. It's true, you never know what the possibilities are until you look.

[Beam Me Up]

I don't know CANTER OH specifically, but the comments made about the horses being all broken down didn't apply to MidAtlantic, where I volunteered a few times. None of the horses were earning their keep as racehorses (hence being moved on to a new occupation) but they were not necessarily unsound--it was just a listing service to raise awareness of what was coming off the track. Some horses were 100% sound but slow, others were looking for less intense careers.

That said, buying OTT does not really lend itself to prolonged/interactive shopping. Trainers are looking to move things fast and with minimal effort, so the odds of getting many additional photos/videos sent (never hurts to ask, though!), or of him still being there if you flew out are low. I think the way most handle it is either to shop at a local track where you can see a number at once and bring your trailer, or to take a huge risk and ship one sight unseen (more common with pros who are not putting all their eggs in one basket, or those looking to rescue without performance expectations).

Are there any tracks out in CA that you could look at? Even without CANTER, maybe there are folks on here that could help you network? If not, I honestly think that is a pretty mediocre horse to either buy sight unseen or to fly out to see (both of those are adding 1500+ to the price), but I guess if east coast is the only/best place for OTTBs, maybe you could arrange a broader search where you check out several tracks in a couple days?

Good luck in your search--it's really hard to find "the one" sometimes.

PS--I like the older ones with more starts, as long as not for resale and the legs look good!

[Renascence]

I've got one who made about 50 starts and won 300k. He was at Suffolk Downs (bad footing track) and his stifles were getting sticky and he was getting older. He is completely restored now, he was 7 and is now 11. He had very clean legs and he is very very sound. I agree that some horses are hard to break, while others should be left in bubble wrap.. You can not tell a lot by the picture, I thought he looked pretty good in spite of the terrible pose and angle...but I would want to see the horse in person and see how he moves and looks and acts. The ones I saw in Canter listing pics and wanted were not the one I ended up wanting when I saw them in person.

[Bogie]

In my exprience the CANTER horses are usualy run down horses with problems that the owners were unable to sell right off the track and so they send them to CANTER and in Ohio this is a warning sign as most of the OTTB's are snatched right up and bought right off the track or bought (or are donated to) by the multitude of equestrian schools (including the one I went to).

I don't know much about CANTER OH, but my experiences working with CANTER NE are all good. These volunteers sacrifice a ton of their time and energy to make sure that horses find appropriate homes and I've always found them to be quite honest.

My current OTTB was donated to CANTER by his owners and it was an act of kindness, not of desperation. They wanted him to find a good home and they thought CANTER would be the best way to do so. They have subsequently donated other horses as well.

This horse is being sold by its trainer/owner. In these cases I believe CANTER volunteers can really help you because they often have seen the horse run for awhile and will know its history and the reputation of its trainer.

I believe that you should always vet an OTTB, regardless of its price. I always want to know the current state of their knees, feet, ankles and hocks. After all, it costs more to keep a lame horse than a sound one and it's a lot less fun.