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  1. #41
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    Oct. 16, 2006
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    VA
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    1,134

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    Only thing I can say is that I really feel sorry for you. It really sucks to have bad neighbors, and the emotional toll they take on you is awful. Just be careful how you handle it--don't want you getting hurt in all of this.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
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    3,712

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    I'd do a dog height hot wire along the fence line.
    It's relativly cheap and you can tell your neighbor its for the horses.



  3. #43
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    Dec. 3, 2006
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    188

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    I'm the one that mentioned rat poison. I told the neighbors in a nice way and got a very good response about it. "Thanks for letting me know." I've had no problems with the neighbors about it or prior. It's certainly not a rumor either, but a coincidence. I believe rats absolutely need to be controlled and they seem to understand that it's more often necessary with horses. I'm surprised if I didn't have the right to control them on my own property. Are there really laws?



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2007
    Posts
    515

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    WHy is it illegal to put out poison on your own property? I'm being serious, I've never heard that. I can't believe that's right.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
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    personally i would get in touch with an aco, as there are two dogs loose then its apack situation, and dogs running around loose can be picked up as strays, doesnt mean to say you reported them and paintball gun just ptu you in the frame and stooping to there level,

    i would rather the dogs be picked up, as it comes under the dangerous dogs act,
    report them and let animal control either pick up the dogs or educate them,
    as the dogs might cuase an accident with other people as well being that they have to cross the road to get to you, its irrepsonsible dog owner ship and to be honest its better for the dogs to be in a home where they areloved as no doubt these boys are unsocialbe to people or other dogs and they would have a chanceeither to be rehomed as the are still young or if that bad and are dangerous pts

    like you said you have a little one will be out in the yard soon



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
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    24,892

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    Also, do you freeze the paintballs or just use at room temperature?
    I do keep some rounds in my freezer...but those are my "last resort" rounds. A regular unfrozen round from a paintball gun at a decent range can leave a large raised bruise as it is...a frozen one travels faster and being solid hurts a lot more. Leaves deep muscle bruises and can break a dog's leg if it hits there. 9 out of 10 times getting hit with a regular unfrozen paintball makes a dog leave fast. I've followed one or two and hit them repeatedly to keep them retreating...with a scope it's really not hard to do. My co2 is pretty ramped up also.
    If the dog is acting mean towards people then I load up the frozen ones to make sure not only I stay safe but that doggy realizes being on this property is definitely a no-no.
    Do an online search for paintball rifles...there are sites that only sell those and there are sporting good stores that sell them also. I personally prefer the Splatmaster...but there are may good ones out there. It's quite a big sport nowadays.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
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    22,489

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traum View Post
    WHy is it illegal to put out poison on your own property? I'm being serious, I've never heard that. I can't believe that's right.

    It depends upon what you mean by that. Can you put out poison for a rat problem in your barn?

    Can you put out poison for your neighbors cat because it poops in your flower bed?

    Can you put out poison to kill a hawk that is preying on your chickens?

    All different things. It can be legal, or illegal. If it's illegal, it can be one or many laws that you break. Among those laws, it can result in nothing more than a fine, or about 10 years in jail. Either way - a criminal conviction.

    Hope that helps.



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2002
    Location
    FL transplant from IL
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    7,177

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    Well considering the bunny problem CAME from the neighbor I don't see why you couldn't put out poison or say you were thinking of it on your own property?? At least the OP would be nice enough to warn him. I am sure plenty of neighbors put stuff out & don't ever tell anybody.

    I guess I am tired of the laws protecting everybody else. Who is letting their dog trespass in the first place? Do you think idiot neighbors care if there are leash laws?? Don't you think calling the cops 25x for their dang dog is going to peeve him off more since he's already working on a short fuse which the OP has witnessed? I'd be worried about my own pets & their safety even on my own property.
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2006
    Posts
    353

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    I had this exact same issue when we moved to our current farm. Had 2 neighbors who collected dogs and let them run loose. At first I was nice - returned the dogs to them and asked them to keep them confined. But they didn't care.

    I bought a CO2 powered BB gun pistol. They would come up to the house and eat my dog's food (he is not agressive - big and dumb!). I have an upstaris window where I removed the screen. I would sneak upstairs and shoot them from the window. I was far enough away that it really didn't sting much, but it startled them so after a few times they stayed away.

    If I had a paintball gun, that would have been great too - but the BB pistol was much cheaper.



  10. #50
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    22,489

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giddy-up View Post
    I guess I am tired of the laws protecting everybody else. Who is letting their dog trespass in the first place? Do you think idiot neighbors care if there are leash laws?? Don't you think calling the cops 25x for their dang dog is going to peeve him off more since he's already working on a short fuse which the OP has witnessed? I'd be worried about my own pets & their safety even on my own property.

    But here's the thing. In the case of dogs harassing livestock - the laws DO protect the livestock owner. I know of no state in the US that doesn't have laws specifically protect them. In fact, some states include such dogs in their dangerous dog laws.

    Along with the right to protect your property comes responsibilities. Property rights are not absolute. You can't mine the property line. You can't set up traps to injure or maim people or animals that might trespass. There are limits to setting out poison.

    This is about balancing the rights of property owners/farmers, and the health and welfare of the public and wild or domestic animals.


    In the case of livestock and dogs, there is an abundance of law that not only protects the livestock owner from liability for protecting their livestock but also imposes heavy penalties on the owners of those dogs that chase, harass, maim or kill such livestock.

    I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but some of these suggestions are scary. If a person has a problem with a loose dog on their farm - for God's sake involve law enforcement to at least verify what the laws are in your jurisdiction. Setting out poisons, making threats, or other extreme measures are dangerous, irresponsible, and could very well land the livestock owner in legal or civil troubles.

    These laws have been on the books for many many years. It's settled. Law enforcement isn't ignorant of these laws. The law is on the side of the farmer and always has been.

    This is one case where you don't have to guess. Pick up the phone and talk to law enforcement about your problem. That's what they are there for! Nonlethal measures may be appropriate for people who are not comfortable with handling firearms or oppose their use. But law enforcement cannot enforce the law if they don't know its being broken.



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2006
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    874

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    Quote Originally Posted by spurgirl View Post
    My advice,after going to court 4 times,is SSS.Our AC did what she could...I had 2 attacks (excuse me, "livestock harrassment) in my barn,leaping at horses,snapping at their faces (one incident videotaped),one attempted t/o attack-I got them away from horses that time with biscuits.Last attempt to attack was on my own deck-tried to get in my house to get my puppy (one had a paw in opening screen door!).Animals are 90 lb. PB,100 lb. GSD...Dogs were released to owner-because he has a concrete floored,roofed kennel,THAT HE DOES NOT USE.So here I sit,with a loaded shotgun.Getting my pistol permit next week,with a permit to carry.Looking into possibly getting a taser too. Not fun with a 2 acre farmyard,5 t/outs,miles of available trails,that I can't use.I will NEVER use the court system again to help me,it's all set up for defendants,believe me...
    My sympathies. It doesn't matter what the laws are if the police and the courts aren't prepared to enforce them, and they frequently aren't. And that's if there is a law. My state's poised to gut it's Dangerous Dog laws. It's not like they were really enforcing the thing much, but at least it was there.



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2003
    Posts
    404

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    You mentioned on page one that every once in a while your dogs cross the road too.

    You better make darn sure that doesn't happen again once you have taken steps to deal with the neighbor's dogs.

    They may have seen your dogs off your property, and either feel that if you can do it so can they, or use it as ammunition against you with ACO.

    I'm sure your dogs aren't harrassing them, (but I guess you never know once they are out of your sight) but the fact that you don't always follow the law completely either could work against you.

    Don't want to sound harsh, I do feel for you and their dogs are definately posing a risk to you and your critters. But if you want AC to enforce the rules, you will have to follow along also.

    Good luck - hope it all works out for you without angering the neighbors! (who are in the wrong, don't mean to be defending them)



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    570

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Swan View Post
    It depends upon what you mean by that. Can you put out poison for a rat problem in your barn?

    Can you put out poison for your neighbors cat because it poops in your flower bed?

    Can you put out poison to kill a hawk that is preying on your chickens?

    All different things. It can be legal, or illegal. If it's illegal, it can be one or many laws that you break. Among those laws, it can result in nothing more than a fine, or about 10 years in jail. Either way - a criminal conviction.

    Hope that helps.
    Wait, are you saying that if I put out poison for the rat/mice or other rodent problem in my backyard, and the neighborhood roving pet under no supervision comes onto my property, I may be held responsible for its demise?????

    Or are you saying if my INTENT was to kill the cat/dog in such a manner I would be acting in an illegal manner? Well how do you prove such intent? Seems like it would be pretty hard to prove such a thing.



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2007
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    724

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    If everone who owned dogs were responsuble, we wouldn't need dangerous dog laws. It is Never the dog, always the owner. The laaws should be referred to as Irresponsible Owner Laws. People who own and farm sheep often have canines to protect then. Those of us with horses should also consider the need to protect then as well. It is just smart farming.



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    11,372

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    Jeta...think about it.

    Putting rat poison in the barn for rats, who ingest it, die, get eaten by the neighbor dog thus poisoning the dog is a whole lot different than putting rat poison in a chunk of meat and leaving it in the ditch by the road for the neighbor dog. How would one prove that? It would be difficult. Especially if you also had rat poison set out in the barn.

    That said, what kind of person does that? It's just wrong!

    Not the dogs' fault their owners are idiots. Unless the dogs are harassing livestock--at which point you can shoot to kill--it's a nuisance, not a danger. It's like the difference between shooting someone who is attacking you (self defense) vs loading a gun, walking across the street, and killing your neighbor because he annoys you(murder).

    Thank God the OP is a reasonable person who would not consider doing morally wrong/illegal things and is trying to resolve the situation legally and without harming the animals. I realize it's frustrating. But there are legal avenues that can be pursued without resorting to doing morally wrong/illegal things.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    570

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRoo View Post
    Jeta...think about it.

    Putting rat poison in the barn for rats, who ingest it, die, get eaten by the neighbor dog thus poisoning the dog is a whole lot different than putting rat poison in a chunk of meat and leaving it in the ditch by the road for the neighbor dog. How would one prove that? It would be difficult. Especially if you also had rat poison set out in the barn..
    OK maybe I was being too simplistic in my thinking...I wouldn't intentionally poison someone else's dog by hiding poison in a chunk of meat.... I was trying to follow J Swans cautionary comments in that, gee if I put out poison to take care of a rodent problem and the wayward neighbor's dog happens to ingest it, I might be held responsible...somehow I was reading into it how intent came into play.

    As an aside, I read some literature some time ago how rodent poisons work in the system. It is a pretty gruesome way to go....I wouldn't wish that on any living thing



  17. #57
    Join Date
    May. 13, 2004
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    2,619

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    Thank you BuddyRoo. There is a reason I asked for input. I got some good suggestions for making my place less fun to hang out at. The ammonia super soaker is one good idea. If need be we will escalate to a paintball gun and mentioning to the neighbor that the dogs are roaming when they are not home and I would hate for them to get hit in the road or eat something toxic at our place. (It is an old farm with lots of old jugs around. We removed most, but I don't know what dogs will get in to if they are exploring.)

    This can probably be reasonably handled if I train the dogs not to wander over here. More risk than reward sort of thing. Letting them go home covered in horse shit might do the trick too. LOL.



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2008
    Posts
    806

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    Do you have Vector Control in your county?

    Where I've lived, you would call them and they'd come out for free, investigate potential "vector hot spots" (places to attract mice, rats, mosquitos, etc.), and help set you up with what you need to take care of them. All you would need to say is that you saw a rat running into the barn/feed room/whatever. Again, it's free (and CAN be very educational!).

    Then call up your neighbor. "Hey neighbor, I've been having a rat problem over here, so I called up vector control and they put out some rat poison for me around the property. I just wanted to let you know because I know sometimes your dogs get out, and the vector control guy said this stuff is really toxic to dogs."

    (Not true, btw - the guy I had out said that a dog eating a poisoned rat would most likely be totally fine, but it can't hurt to say.)

    Then, if the guy doesn't lock his dogs up, you take them to the pound and claim you have no idea whose dogs they are, but they were harassing your animals. If neighbor asks, you don't know what he's talking about.



  19. #59
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    Jan. 21, 2008
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    236

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    Hi I have been having neighbor problems too, but not horse related. We live in a subdivision and in hurricane Katrina- our neghborhood was a mess... Anyhow, I have three dogs, our neighbor behind us collected insurance $ on the fence. I asked him at the time if he had collected on it and if he would replace it yes,yes.. Ok so this week I couldn't take it anymore and i put the fence back up myself- $5000 later. I still have the other side and gate to finish. So meanwhile the three sneeky dogs have figured out how to escape from kennel they go to my son's friend's house to play with their kids and dogs if we aren't home. Usually one dog loose at a time- not running in a pack of three. Jack Russell and border collie/whippet and Ridgeback (but he never leaves the yard) . But, I'm not the only one with a loose dog we are outside of city limits so there are dogs all over the place. Well, one kept craping in my neighbors yard and three times he has thrown it on to my driveway... Law of odds I guess.. but at the same time his grandson's dog crapped in my yard the other day.. Next to this guy is the guy who calls the ACO anytime a dog sets foot out of the yard but allows his 10 year old to drive a 4 wheeler on the street with no helmet with his 6 year old daughter on the back, and lets them light off bottle rockets in the driveway. One loose dog that kept coming into my yard and then growling at me and chasing me never came back. Solution: I had a gigantic bowl of garlic mashed potatoes that me and my kids threw at it. He was coated in mashed potatoes. I know it is an "inside dog" and probably ran in the house coated in garlic mashed potatoes- haven't seen it since. My Mom used to take loose dogs that would get in our trash or chase or dog or cat or crap in the yard and she would give them a haircut with the horse clippers. Nothing like your standard poodle or sheepdog returning home totally shaved.



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
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    The point here is that your neighbors are NOT being responsible dog owners. We must live next door to their relatives. We had a similar problem at our place when we first moved in. We had dogs, cats, and chickens from our nieghbors wander over all the time. The cats and chickens quickly found a better place (Our over grown GSD took care of that rather quick) But we still have problems with their dogs. And it gets ugly really fast when I have my dog out (he's rather protective). I would first try to talk to your neighbors. I know in my state we are allowed to shoot at an animal that is putting livestock in danger (I believe that goes for most places, but check it out)

    I also have a retired horse who HATES small animals, especially dogs. I warned my neighbors of this, as he will chase the animal down and if he catches it....so long doggy. They didn't believe me until the SAW him chase one of their dogs and injure it. The problem has gotten a little better, but the reality of the situation is that it is NOT THAT HARD to keep your dogs contained. (maybe I should just send you my dog chasing horse??)

    Good luck, I say put the ball in your neighbors court by talking to them. If they completely blow you off, you tried, and begin thinking of different measures.



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