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  1. #1
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    Default Hoof Threads--A New Approach

    A somewhat unique characteristic of this site is that it provides a gathering place for horsemen with very different backgrounds and frames of reference. These differences encourage discussion on the wide variety of horse topics broached through the site and we hope, in most cases, lead to the sharing of information and ideas.

    As those who follow it have surely taken note, one area where these differences are most clear is in the discussion of hoof care. With somewhat diametrically opposed viewpoints represented by members of the board, hoof threads often become general debates vs. threads geared toward providing information tailored to and directed at the OP.

    There are entire other forums devoted to the discussion of various hoof care methods--so it's no surprise that the posters are passionate about their often very different ideas about the complex factors playing into this science.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    The board was provided to foster debate and discussion, but we have a problem when the general debate overshadows the OP's questions. Generally speaking, the focus of the thread should be the OP's situation, not each other.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    So, we'll try something a little bit different:

    You're welcome to disagree with each other and explain why you disagree with certain points in the course of regular threads, but you can't let it take over threads started by horse owners looking for help.

    If posters feel the need to "get into it" and debate some of the larger issues of a topic, say, oh, I don't know...barefoot vs. shod...SPIN IT OFF. Other forums, horsey and not, have "Professionals Hangouts" and the like where the pros can have at it, leaving the general audience's thread a bit less contentious and easier to digest and understand.

    If a thread is losing focus on the OP, I or one of the parties can make a post on the thread with a link to a new "Pro Spinoff: xyz topic" thread. Non-pros are welcome to join the discussion as well. These threads are likely to get a bit more heated, so enter at your own risk, but the same general rules apply in these threads--no calling, keep it clean, etc.

    We'll see how this concept works for a while and tweak as necessary.

    Thanks,
    Mod 1



  2. #2
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    Nov. 4, 2003
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    Default

    Whew...crossing my cyber fingers
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  3. #3
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    Default

    Thank you for trying to improve the situation!



  4. #4
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    What about Parelli shod horses...whoops, you will make me stand in the corner if I don't watch my typing gingers!!!!
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  5. #5
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    Nov. 26, 2003
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    Default

    Parelli shod Gypsy Vanners with rollkur
    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin



  6. #6
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    Dec. 27, 2006
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    Default

    Parelli shod Gypsy Vanners with rolkur that can fart MAGNETIC butterflize. While being massaged.



  7. #7
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    Dec. 9, 2005
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    Unhappy Not a net gain, IMO.

    I think you guys shot yourselves in the hoof with this one. Perhaps I'm the only one who noticed that most of the farriers with a lot of expertise have stopped posting here? They used come onto these boards on their own time to offer us the benefit of their experience. Perhaps a juicy argument was part of the allure. Readers' lack of desire to sift through the arguments and the restriction that does not allow posters to argue their point and dispell what they see as misinformation has perhaps made it not worth their while to contribute here.

    How many of you would be willing to talk shop without defending or arguing in your area of expertise? Would you accept a gag when you are sharing hard-won knowledge on your own time?

    I've been watching the hoof threads since this sticky appeared. Yep, fewer arguments. LOTS less information being discussed. Or lets say, there is information provided by some people, but not the discussion from all sides. We are limited to listening to people who are opinionated, and we've limited the ability of people to disagree, sometimes passionately. You may think that you haven't limited their ability to disagree, but why state an opinion you are not allowed to defend?

    This was one of the places where farriers and trimmers could discuss/argue on an even footing in an unbiased forum. That freedom is why I liked reading the hoof threads. Horseshoes is biased toward farriers, and barefoot forums are biased toward barefoot. This was one place where discussions were balanced, even though they often got nasty. It was easy enough to skim the nastiness and get to the info.

    So I was sorry to see this rule come down. I hope COTHers are happy with the results; I think COTH lost more than it gained with this. Maybe I'm alone in that. I can say that when this sticky came out I regretted that I had purchased a subscription the week before. The magazine holds no interest for me (very little about trail riding in there) and mostly feeds my recycling bin. I bought the subscription because an email came out asking us to support the BB.

    I have no problem with expecting posters to keep their manners--that should be demanded and enforced. I also think threads should stay on topic, for the most part. But since this sticky came out, I can't help but notice how far off topic other threads are allowed to go as long as they aren't about feet. And I don't think there is nearly as much information being exchanged in the hoof threads. So read in comfort, but what is the saying? Igonorance is bliss?

    Perhaps I have mistaken what this sticky is about. I suspect others have read it the same way I have and have taken their expertise elsewhere. That's a shame.



  8. #8
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    Except for Rick, I thought the farriers just came here to argue.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Except for Rick, I thought the farriers just came here to argue.
    Same here.

    I don't miss it in the slightest. If they wanted to pack up and leave because they weren't allowed to fling poo anymore, then that says A LOT about them.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  10. #10
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    ---"So I was sorry to see this rule come down. I hope COTHers are happy with the results; I think COTH lost more than it gained with this. Maybe I'm alone in that. I can say that when this sticky came out I regretted that I had purchased a subscription the week before. The magazine holds no interest for me (very little about trail riding in there) and mostly feeds my recycling bin. I bought the subscription because an email came out asking us to support the BB."---

    I just noticed this sticky and read it and have to say that it is ok, since it is a notice to please be, well, pleasant.
    At least be pleasant as much as we can, when we really would like to call a dummy those that are seemingly not in awe of our great dissertations and the sublime points we make on certain topics.

    I don't know how long this sticky has been around, but I have not noticed much of a difference, since those topics come and go and now it seems to be a slow time for the more controversial topics, with everyone busy.

    As for the COTH magazine, I have not been around or showing in those disciplines it represents for some 30 years and still always look forward to being informed about what is going on and learning new stuff as it is reported there.
    We don't have to be at the olympics to love to read about it.
    I think to subscribe to COTH is not only to help these forums, a worthy goal as that may be in itself, but is also a small price to pay to be better informed in such a consistent and pleasant way as I have been all these years.
    I woud guess there are many others not participating directly in those disciplines and hoping to see their name there that have been subscribing and enjoying COTH for all these years and will for many more.

    Just one more opinion.



  11. #11
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    I have no problem with politeness being mandated. I do my best to retain good manners at all time.

    What I miss are the open discussions that were allowed to go off topic enough to explore related issues in the same vein. That was one of the things I enjoyed the most about this particular BB. However, the hoof threads are not allowed to go even mildly off topic.

    I'm glad so many readers are happy with the results and enjoy the magazine. I'm not so happy with the results and find little of interest in the magazine. I think I've been voted down in my opinion. See? That's the nice thing about having a discussion--one opinion sparks other, differing opinions and the thread gets interesting. I would not have known that Bluey likes the mag if I hadn't said I didn't.

    Carry on and enjoy the calm, cool, and collected sharing of information on the hoof threads. You have what you asked for, but I think something valuable has gone missing in the process.



  12. #12
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    May. 3, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Except for Rick, I thought the farriers just came here to argue.
    I am reminded of the phrase "it takes 2 to argue". Strangely enough, I have considered many of the non-farriers here to be difficult to communicate with objectively.

    Imagine the following hypothetical exchange:

    OP- "My horse is lame"
    Someone responds- "pull the shoes. It will make him more comfortable because shoes don't let the foot expand and increase the vibration on the foot"

    Under the new rules, I can't address the inaccuracies of the response. Since letting these comments go unchallenged might appear to the casual reader as being in agreement, I have decided to stay out of this type of conversation. I know I am not going to change any of the bare footers minds regarding hoofcare. I have posted in the past to try to provide some perspective for those horse owners interested enough to read on hoof related topics. I have come to believe that most horse owners reading here are savvy enough to believe their veterinarians and farriers before trusting what they read on the internet.
    Even so, reading erroneous information and ignoring it is very frustrating.
    I would also observe that many of the farriers are in the middle of their most busy time of year, and are likely to return to the discussions when their schedule slows down.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by reillyshoe View Post
    I am reminded of the phrase "it takes 2 to argue". Strangely enough, I have considered many of the non-farriers here to be difficult to communicate with objectively.

    Imagine the following hypothetical exchange:

    OP- "My horse is lame"
    Someone responds- "pull the shoes. It will make him more comfortable because shoes don't let the foot expand and increase the vibration on the foot"

    Under the new rules, I can't address the inaccuracies of the response. Since letting these comments go unchallenged might appear to the casual reader as being in agreement, I have decided to stay out of this type of conversation. I know I am not going to change any of the bare footers minds regarding hoofcare. I have posted in the past to try to provide some perspective for those horse owners interested enough to read on hoof related topics. I have come to believe that most horse owners reading here are savvy enough to believe their veterinarians and farriers before trusting what they read on the internet.
    Even so, reading erroneous information and ignoring it is very frustrating.
    I would also observe that many of the farriers are in the middle of their most busy time of year, and are likely to return to the discussions when their schedule slows down.
    I don't see that the stated rules don't let you say what you think is wrong with that one answer to the OP's question there.
    I agree with you that there are other opinions and that to state so is and always has been ok.

    I see the request to please don't make these discussions WWII.
    Don't respond to the one in that hypothetical response calling it a misguided idiot, as we may want to, wondering where they got that and why they can't see that is bunk.
    That is what we are not supposed to do.

    I will say that, thinking about this longer, we do seem to have a little bit more leeway in topics and their expansion than we used to, as long as it is kept civil.
    That can't be but in the best interest of all's enjoyment of COTH, I would say.

    There probably are as many opinions about this as there are over any other we may bring forth to be considered.
    It seems to be in the nature of the forums.



  14. #14
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    Try reading the "Keeps losing shoes" thread from a farrier perspective, and see how civil you think it is. Fire the farrier! Learn to trim yourself! You can do it!

    If I respond to these posts by pointing out that not all horses can be barefoot, it is off topic.
    If I point out that it can take years to learn how to adequately maintain horses feet, even when barefoot, than I am off topic and argumentative.

    The irony is that the OP is looking for advice on how to keep shoes ON. I consider some of the responses to be off topic, uncivil and argumentative.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by reillyshoe View Post
    Try reading the "Keeps losing shoes" thread from a farrier perspective, and see how civil you think it is. Fire the farrier! Learn to trim yourself! You can do it!

    If I respond to these posts by pointing out that not all horses can be barefoot, it is off topic.
    If I point out that it can take years to learn how to adequately maintain horses feet, even when barefoot, than I am off topic and argumentative.

    The irony is that the OP is looking for advice on how to keep shoes ON. I consider some of the responses to be off topic, uncivil and argumentative.
    I would say that on any forum, if any postings are, as you say: "some of the responses to be off topic, uncivil and argumentative", such interpretation is out of our hands and the domain of moderators.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I would say that on any forum, if any postings are, as you say: "some of the responses to be off topic, uncivil and argumentative", such interpretation is out of our hands and the domain of moderators.
    Yup, and this is why I am posting my objection to the new policy on this (moderator started) thread.



  17. #17
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    Most of the farriers post such rude answers it's hard to be civil in return. Defensive, much? If the horse has foot problems and the foot isn't being trimmed correctly and the shoes won't stay on then yes, it's probably the farrier's fault. There ARE a lot of crappy farriers out there. Ask any vet. If the on-line farriers come charging to the crappy farriers' defense without giving the owner any credit, they just look stupid.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Most of the farriers post such rude answers it's hard to be civil in return. Defensive, much? If the horse has foot problems and the foot isn't being trimmed correctly and the shoes won't stay on then yes, it's probably the farrier's fault. There ARE a lot of crappy farriers out there. Ask any vet. If the on-line farriers come charging to the crappy farriers' defense without giving the owner any credit, they just look stupid.
    Right.
    People barging in with their chip on their shoulders sometimes miss the real line and do look stupid, be it for any one side of the debates.
    Been there, done that myself, had to backpedal or apologize, rather than digging myself in that hole further.



  19. #19
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    And using descriptive terms like "rude, stupid, and crappy" in the same blanket statement about farriers is bound to help the conversation. I wonder why farriers might be "defensive"? Come to think of it, I think you referred to farriers as "argumentative" earlier in this thread. I would also add that I do not find your answer to be all that civil.

    There are many reasons for horses losing shoes. Am I stupid to suggest that some might be due to reasons beyond "crappy farriers"? Or should we just end the conversation by acknowledging that the only reasonable answer is for the owner to pull off the shoes and learn to trim?



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by reillyshoe View Post
    There are many reasons for horses losing shoes. Am I stupid to suggest that some might be due to reasons beyond "crappy farriers"?
    Perhaps. If a horse is losing shoes it's often because the breakover is wrong. That's the farrier's fault, not the horse's fault.

    The two barefoot practitioners who post on this forum are not rude, to my knowledge. Not at all.

    Gee, I think I called most of the farriers who post on this board rude and argumentative because they are. It's not something I made up.



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