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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2003
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    Wet and Windy Washington
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    Default Would you complain?

    Would you put in a complaint on a judge who was less then tactful in her comments on horse and rider?

    This wasnt a single occassion but on numerous different horses and riders.

    For example she said (and this is not exact) 'useful type (of horse) but limited ability'. This was actually on quite a talented horse and I understand she can only judge whats in front of her at the time but honestly, even if this WERE true surely it wouldn't hurt to put it in a nicer way.

    She also said something along the lines of 'horse has more potential then rider' (and this was to a trainer).

    Like I said, while her comments may or may not be valid, she put them in a manner that was, quite frankly IMO, rude.

    Worth putting in a complaint or not?
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2008
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    5,610

    Default

    I don't actually see those comments as rude. Complaining about them I would find offensive.

    If you really feel that the judge was incorrect then it might be a differennt story, but there had better be a very obvious (to everyone on the premises) faux pas, not just a disagreement of rider/owner and judge.

    If you don't agree with that judge don't ride under him/her again.

    They could actually be correct and trying to tell you something.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2007
    Location
    San Diego
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    Default

    I agree. I don't think they are the most tactful, but they are frank. I wouldn't bother complaining over it. If it really upset me, I'd avoid that judge in the future.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2003
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    Default

    judge could have been drunk. was it after lunch?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2002
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    Canada
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    2,213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by feisomeday View Post
    judge could have been drunk. was it after lunch?


    Haha, sorry, I had an experience like that at a schooling show, I swear.
    Class before lunch, I got a comment of "horse would be better pulling cart. might not be suited for dressage" (which you know, while not the nicest comment WAS honest, I gues) but AFTER lunch (pretty sure that fruit punch was spiked!), same judge, got a MUCH higher score with the comment of "beautiful pair! really nice movement. could go far!"

    So the judge only liked my horse while drunk!?
    Jeeze. I need to schedule ALL my classes after lunch!
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



  6. #6
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    Sep. 6, 2007
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    San Diego
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    Default

    "horse would be better pulling cart. might not be suited for dressage"
    Now that IS harsh.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2008
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    5,610

    Default

    Quoted from TropicalStorm:
    "Class before lunch, I got a comment of "horse would be better pulling cart. might not be suited for dressage" (which you know, while not the nicest comment WAS honest, I gues) but AFTER lunch (pretty sure that fruit punch was spiked!), same judge, got a MUCH higher score with the comment of "beautiful pair! really nice movement. could go far!"

    So the judge only liked my horse while drunk!? "
    OMG that's hilarious. Now we know the secret to making the Olympic Team.

    I do agree the draft horse comment was harsh.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2007
    Posts
    307

    Default

    The second one is a little harsh, but IMHO not complaint worthy. As for the first one, I don't think it is at all offensive. In fact if the phrase was reversed and said, "limited ability but useful type," I would consider that a nice compliment for a horse that doesn't have fabulous talent, but is well schooled and has a good mind. As to whether the horse is actually talented, well if you think the judge knows horses, then the horse either isn't all that talented or wasn't well presented to show off its talent. If you think the judge doesn't know horses, then why would you pay to be judged by her?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
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    24,408

    Default

    i pay to hear the judge's opinion and i would rather hear it. not everyone sees the comments as rude, i don't.

    there are a great many people these days putting very unsuitable horses into dressage. they may as well have a little reality served up now and again, rather than blaming the judge for low scores.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2008
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Excuse my obvious ignorance, but what the heck,SLC, is a horse "unsuitable for dressage"? In my youthful optimism, I want to believe that,at least in the non-FEI levels, any horse that can do the simple patterns required in an even relaxed tempo should be rewarded regardless of "brilliance" and the OOOooh factor. Geez, talk about elitist. You and Obama. A judge is only there to make the most possibly objective numerical score and a minimum of comments at the end. Unfortunately, being a judge , like in the western and arab communities, doesn't take much more than having the $$ and time to take the accreditation courses.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2007
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    607

    Default

    Yeah, where are all these "very unsuitable horses?" slc keeps talking about them, but I have yet to see any!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2008
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    186

    Default

    Amen!! I guess only good looking men and women should be seen in public also since they're "more suitable" for viewing. Give me a freakin' break! A judge is there to give a score, a reason for the score, and nothing more. Did the horse and rider perform to the standards stated at the top of the test? Personal opinion and "mini riding lessons" in the comment section are inappropriate.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2006
    Location
    Southern Finger Lakes of NY
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    Default

    In answer to your question, no, I wouldn't complain. By entering a competition that is judged, you set yourself up for being judged. Judging by its very nature, in any discipline, is to some degree subjective. If you find nothing of value to learn from in the judge's comments, ignore them. If there is anything to learn from, do so. Otherwise, I'd chalk it up to life lessons learned. I'd suck it up and move on.
    Foxwin Farm
    Home of The Bay Boy Wonder
    and other fine Morgan Sporthorses



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 2008
    Location
    US
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    52

    Default

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by JackSprats Mom View Post
    For example she said (and this is not exact) 'useful type (of horse) but limited ability'. This was actually on quite a talented horse and I understand she can only judge whats in front of her at the time but honestly, even if this WERE true surely it wouldn't hurt to put it in a nicer way.
    I think it is VERY important to note that the OP has stated that these were not the "exact words". The judge very well may have said something that was more diplomatic sounding but it wasn't TAKEN the way it was written.

    This happens all the time. Poor judges...they're damned it they do and damned if they don't.

    She also said something along the lines of 'horse has more potential then rider' (and this was to a trainer).
    Once again...poster says "something along the lines of". Unless we know EXACTLY what the judge wrote...how can we offer a fair opinion?


    I know someone who got only ONE comment from a judge down in the "further comments box". It said, "Nice turnout".

    That rider went around telling everyone that the judge said, "You can't ride your way out of a paper bag, but at least you LOOKED good!"

    HAHAHA. That rider was a bit tongue in cheek, but it's still a perfect example about how a rider can INFER lots of things from a simple comment that were never actually said.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2000
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    2,431

    Default

    [quote=PennyRidge;3147226]


    I know someone who got only ONE comment from a judge down in the "further comments box". It said, "Nice turnout".

    That rider went around telling everyone that the judge said, "You can't ride your way out of a paper bag, but at least you LOOKED good!"

    HAHAHA. That rider was a bit tongue in cheek, but it's still a perfect example about how a rider can INFER lots of things from a simple comment that were never actually said.

    I've always been told that if you only get the comment "nice turnout", then that rider's interpretation is exactly correct. It means the judge has nothing else good to say about you.



  16. #16
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    The Land of the Frozen
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    Default

    I don't think the comments were rude, but then those weren't the exact comments, so who knows?? Was this regarding your Arab? If so, the judge may not be feelin' the groove on that particular breed??

    I agree that you pay the judge for an opinion. One of the reasons I liked the dressage judging/scoring system is that you weren't out there with 20 others in a rail class getting a first, fifth or tenth assigned to your number with no reasoning or explanation. You are getting real comments with details and real observations, one on one, you and the judge. They even have scribes so the judge can keep her/his eyes on you at all times. Again, unlike a rail class where of the 20 of you, the judge glances at you for a total of 6 seconds during your whole ride.

    Sometimes the comments aren't pleasant but as long as they aren't outright hateful and inappropriate, I don't see the problem. Truthful comments, no matter how uncomfortable they may be, is how you improve and learn what weaknesses to strengthen.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2007
    Location
    Aldie, VA
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    Default

    Hah! I fully expect to get something along the lines of "talented horse, rider needs to be shot" in my first try

    And it wouldn't bother me a bit! I'll just have to work harder to prove them wrong.

    Eileen
    Mad Mare™ Studio
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    http://MadMare.com



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2008
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    391

    Default

    There are horses who are just not dressage horses even at the low level. My hunter who we tried to event flunked out of novice dressage in eventing. A BNT who was a dressage rider not an eventer managed to get this horse to frame sorta once, by using a leverage bit and draw reins and that was it. He was just a big 17.2 HD QH who at best was level and really was a bit down hill and had a back longer than a weenie dog. He was just physically unable to lift up under him self to do well at even the lowest levels.



  19. #19
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    Jan. 10, 2002
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JackSprats Mom View Post
    She also said something along the lines of 'horse has more potential then rider' (and this was to a trainer).
    Obviously I can't comment on this particular pair, but I've seen some pretty poor riding by "trainers" where the horse really did have more potential than the rider.

    I don't think the comments merit a complaint, but if you feel they were way off the mark, don't pay your money for that judge's opinion again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
    Posts
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    Default

    Was this regarding your Arab?
    There's that old chip again!

    I think it's just bad sportsmanship to 'complain' about little things like that. Suck it up and move on.



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