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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2007
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    41

    Default Regu-Mate/Lutalyse Timeframe??

    I have three mares that I plan to breed this year, all of whom NEVER show a heat cycle! I am scheduled to bring them to the vet's on Monday, May 5, and leave them there for a minimum of one week. She said the best plan of action would be to give Regu-Mate 15 days before the Lutalyse shot, and give the Lutalyse shot on the Friday (2nd) before trailering over on Monday (5th). Another vet told me to give the Regu-Mate 10 days before the Lutalyse shot, and give the Lutalyse on Sunday (4th) before trailering them over on Monday (5th). Two are maiden mares and one has had three foals, so I have NO idea what the maidens are going to do. I'm pretty positive I won't be lucky enough for them to all come into heat at roughly the same time, and I'm already expecting that at least one isn't going to take on the first cycle as that would just be too easy...and breeding is always a gamble! haha I'm just wondering if anyone out there has any suggestions along this line as I'm pretty open to ideas! The reason I want them bred together as I am sending the maidens to a foaling facility three hours away and want to keep the travel/mare care costs as low as possibe (which is also unlikely!). Thanks for any and all advice!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    lol... this is vic. i posted the same question! ha ha ha!
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
    Posts
    14,488

    Default

    Mares can continue to cycle and ovulate while on Regumate. What is stops is the teasing "behavior".
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com/a...rogestin.shtml

    If they do ovulate while on Regumate, the Lutalyse will not bring them in.
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com/a...aglandin.shtml

    If you really want to shut them down to time the breeding, use P & E
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/pe.htm



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    HEY... ON MY POST I HAD PPL TELL ME TO USE P&E TOO. MAYBE THAT'S THE ROUTE TO GO?
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2007
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    41

    Default

    I'm thinking that may be the way to go since it is a fer shur deal...well, as close to a sure thing as you can get in breeding



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    so how do we get it? lol. is it prescrip or what?
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    oh ya... and on my post someone said using that 90% of their mares had a 35mm follicle after 18 days... whatever that means?
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    oh ya... and they also said that keeping them on regumate even for the 120 days or so after breeding will more than likely CAUSE problems... hmm....
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2007
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    41

    Default

    It is a prescription med so we just have to call Dr. Ann to get it. That's one thing I'm not sure about...how soon would we start it then? It says you give it for ten days, and on days 9 & 10 you split the Prostaglandin F shot. So when should this be started initially if we were planning to trailer there on Monday at 9 a.m.? If estrus will start typically four days after the last day of P&E and the Prostaglandin shot, should we plan to have the shots end Thursday (1st) before we haul Monday? But then by day 18 it says most mares will have a 35 mm follicle and should ovulate within 36-42 hours after hCG administration, so should I technically end on Tuesday (April 29th) to make sure that they hopefully ovulate during the week so we don't miss semen collection dates...i.e. have them ovulate over the weekend?? Haha Sorry, but I'm confused on when to start and stop



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    i am confused all around!!! lol.
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ashmotter View Post
    It is a prescription med so we just have to call Dr. Ann to get it. That's one thing I'm not sure about...how soon would we start it then?
    P&E can be started at any point in the mare's cycle so long as she is cycling and NOT transitional.

    It says you give it for ten days, and on days 9 & 10 you split the Prostaglandin F shot.
    You don't "split" the prostaglandin dose, you give 1/10th of the typical dose of prostaglandin (usually 1/10th to 2/10ths of a cc of prostaglandin) on day 9 and again on day 10.

    So when should this be started initially if we were planning to trailer there on Monday at 9 a.m.? If estrus will start typically four days after the last day of P&E and the Prostaglandin shot, should we plan to have the shots end Thursday (1st) before we haul Monday? But then by day 18 it says most mares will have a 35 mm follicle and should ovulate within 36-42 hours after hCG administration, so should I technically end on Tuesday (April 29th) to make sure that they hopefully ovulate during the week so we don't miss semen collection dates...i.e. have them ovulate over the weekend?? Haha Sorry, but I'm confused on when to start and stop[/QUOTE]

    You are making this more complicated than it needs to be. If you wish for your mares to be bred on let's say April 21st, you would start your mares on the P&E protocol on April 2nd. Do 10 days of the P&E and on day 9 and 10 give prostaglandin. The mare "should" have a 35 mm follicle on April 20th. Give hCG on the 20th and breed on the 21st! Count backwards from the day you wish to breed to decide when to start the process. It truly is easy!

    P&E is a prescription drug and as it is not commercially available must be compounded by a compounding pharmacy. BET Pharmacy in Lexington, Kentucky is the pharmacy we prefer to use as they are well versed in the product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil' Rosebuds
    oh ya... and they also said that keeping them on regumate even for the 120 days or so after breeding will more than likely CAUSE problems... hmm....
    Re-read my post. I dislike being misquoted as it leads to confusion or miscommunication or the spread of misinformation. I did NOT say that it would "more than likely CAUSE problems". What I "did" say is: Why? Unless there is a specific reason for progesterone supplementation, you may actually be CREATING problems that may not be there. Additionally, if the mare develops an infection post breeding, you are actually shutting down the cervix and creating a nice, tight incubator that won't allow the mare to naturally return to estrus to deal with problems. There are just a handful of reasons to place a mare on Regumate post breeding and seeing it as a panacea for non-existent problems is more harmful than beneficial. It is GROSSLY overused.

    Mares that are low in progesterone are few and far between. In order to determine if a mare is truly low, one must test multiple times a day for multiple days. If a mare has an incompetent cervix, that is one reason that a mare should be kept on Regumate. Or, a mare that is diagnosed with placentitis, the use of Regumate can assist in dealing with the problem. But, many breeders supplement with Regumate as a matter of course. It is now known that by supplementing with Regumate unnecessarily can create the very problem one is attempting to address - low progesterone levels. It creates a negative feedback whereby the mare's body recognizes that it is being supplemented and shuts down or diminishes her own natural production of progesterone.

    Hope that helps!

    Kathy St.Martin
    Equine Reproduction Short Courses
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
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    29

    Default

    my apologies for mis quoting... how would keeping a mare on regumate PREVENT her from losing a foal?
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 31, 2008
    Posts
    29

    Default

    this whole breeding thing sounds very complicated... what the heck is hCG?
    ~***COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY!***~



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2007
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    41

    Default

    Thanks Kathy! I appreciate all the help! I tend to make things more complicated than they are...such a frustrating habit! Haha How you explained it definitely made sense. Again, I appreciate the information



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Kathy's website is a plethora of information :-) I have been a frequent flyer of it lately.
    Go take a peek :-) Also, their BB is fabulous!
    "Sometimes you just have to shut up and color."



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