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  1. #1
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    Default Color question...

    Just wondering if any of our color gurus here know if there is a technical term for the metallic sheen some breeds have... the Akhal Teke for instance. I thought I remembered stumbling across an Andalusian breeder's site that referred to the gene as "pearl" but I did not save it and I'll have to try to look around for it again... what are the other breeds known to carry the same coat characteristics?


    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-



  2. #2
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    There is a newly identified gene which is pearl, and that does put a metallic sheen on, but I'm not sure that's the same as an Akhal Teke or the 'copper penny' chettys.

    Pearl is 'invisible' on it's own, but when put with ONE creme gene, resembles a double dilute.

    Champagne has some very interesting effects on coat, and might be also what you are thinking of...

    And then there are just the 'metallic' chestnuts... my guy is one, his white is iridescent like the belly of a rainbow trout... and his chestnut is like a brand new penny. I am SUCH a sucker for it. I'm *dying* to see if his son is--sire and dam both had the 'glow'... but won't really know until he sheds this year if he's got it or not.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
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  3. #3
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    From what I ahve heard both Pearl and champange CAN do that mattalic sheen to a coat that is seen on Tekes BUT it is not what causes it in Tekes
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
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  4. #4
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    My interest was peaked because of a couple of Arabians I have seen with this type of shimmer to their coats, including one of my mares (not as intense as the Akhal Teke, but obvious). Since the cream gene is absent in Arabian coat genetics it is probably doubtful that a pearl gene is responsible for the sheen... any other thoughts?


    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura View Post
    My interest was peaked because of a couple of Arabians I have seen with this type of shimmer to their coats, including one of my mares (not as intense as the Akhal Teke, but obvious). Since the cream gene is absent in Arabian coat genetics it is probably doubtful that a pearl gene is responsible for the sheen... any other thoughts?
    If I had pictures I might be able to help. Although being an Arab does significantly lower the possibilities to almost zero of it being any dilute or modifying gene, but I would love to see. I could also show it to some people that would be able to help even more.
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
    http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis View Post
    If I had pictures I might be able to help. Although being an Arab does significantly lower the possibilities to almost zero of it being any dilute or modifying gene, but I would love to see. I could also show it to some people that would be able to help even more.
    My mare is still pretty woolly right now, but I noticed it yesterday after I washed her legs (very icky when she is in heat ). Here is a photo of her from last October. Even though she had been recently body clipped she still has a great shine to her coat.

    I have also noticed other Arabians with similar bloodlines that have the same coat quality (started a thread on an Arab forum to see if any info could be found there too... seems there are quite a few bloodlines that have this characteristic). It is nowhere near as brilliant as the Teke, but definitly obvious (especially in person).

    This is the only photo of another Arabian I can find that even comes close to showing what I'm talking about, the horse looks shiny and well groomed more than metallic... http://www.horsetalk.ca/alada.jpeg


    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-



  7. #7
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    I've had a couple of Thoroughbreds that have shown it also. One was a bright bay colt and the other is a chestnut mare I currently have. Hers is a golden metallic. Her sire is supposed to have a sabino gene and has tons of white. She has her share of white, too. Don't know if that's important or not.
    PennyG



  8. #8
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    Our buckskin stallion is very dark but has a definite metallic sheen to his tan areas - it especially shows where it roans into the sooty areas. I have always wondered what causes this bc it is unlike any normal glossy-healthy coat that I've seen. His first buckskin colt also looks this way. I wouldn't say that it makes him look like a double dilute, but that may be just bc he is so sooty.

    I love the color but it can be a bit frustrating for me as a photographer - it is a hard thing to capture and his tan areas often reflect so much that they 'blow out'.

    The top 3 photos on this page shows it pretty well:
    http://zeefroggie.com/Pages/Horses/Y...Liberty_1.html

    As does the top one on this page:
    http://zeefroggie.com/Pages/Horses/Y...rtraits_2.html

    His breeder, Gwen, also posts here occasionally - she may have some insight into what causes it genetically since she has worked w/ dilutes extensively. I know I'd love to know more about it!
    Blacktree Farm
    Lessons, training & sporthorse sales. Proud supporter of our buckskin German Warmblood stallion, Yeager GF.
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  9. #9
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    I too would be interested to learn more about this. Years ago, an Arabian farm I worked at had a Polish (I believe), bay mare that was matalic. In her case, it was very distinct from just a shiny coat.

    She was a broodmare and not groomed like a show horse, yet you could even see that metalic glow when she was dirty. I never tired of looking at her. It was just so striking. I've always wondered what caused it. As far as I know, she didn't pass it on to any of her offspring.



  10. #10
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    My understanding of the tekes is that the sheen comes from the structure of their hair follicles. They have a smaller clear core and a larger translucent outer covering. The structure actually refracts light, and can also redirect and focus it.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by okggo View Post
    My understanding of the tekes is that the sheen comes from the structure of their hair follicles. They have a smaller clear core and a larger translucent outer covering. The structure actually refracts light, and can also redirect and focus it.
    Very interesting... but it raises another question... Why do only some horses display the sparkle but not all, if it is dominant in one breed such as the Teke? Or are there only certain colors that display it best like the metallic dun as opposed to perhaps black?


    \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-



  12. #12
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    I believe certain colors, particularly golden based (pally, buckskin, gold champ) it just shows a heck of a lot more.

    I also think hormones have a lot to do with the glow. Ever notice how some stallions (of any breed) just radiate? And of course nutrition, grooming, etc. So a combination of all those working together.

    I can say with mares, I've noticed a lot more sheen when they are pregnant, including increased dapples, so another plug for the hormonal effect.



  13. #13
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    The only reference I have seen to what this is called is a "satin" gene. In mice and rabbits, the satin gene produces a hollow hair shaft, like the ATs. Champagne horses often seem to have that sheen to them that is not just from a healthy shine - likely from the "satin" factor.
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  14. #14
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    Champagne...my hubby boarded with a breeder of champagnes for awhile and had one of his own. I did not think he was any more radiant then any other horse with a nice summer coat and in the winter he dulled down like the rest. Of all the ones at that barn, maybe one seemed to have the natural glow and the rest not so much so. So I think champagne in combination with something else, like the different follicle would produce that glow (and it stands our more b/c of the color) then just champagne in and of itself. But just my impression of the few I have seen.



  15. #15
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    Right, did not mean to imply that it was champagne causing the sheen, just that outside of the ATs, champagne colors (and probably some more than others) seem more prone to having the hollow hair shaft/satin than other colors. I would think too there might be varying degrees of hollowness? *shrug*
    ______________________________
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  16. #16
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    My thought is that there is a genetic factor that causes it-like the satin gene in rodents. But it seems that horses with visible phaeomelanin (not black or really dark horses) show it better. You can really get that gold glitter shine (as opposed to the glassy shine that comes from good health and grooming). If someone was really bored and wanted a genetics project, they could do some comparative studies, but I wouldn't know where on the genome to start looking.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraHannah View Post
    I too would be interested to learn more about this. Years ago, an Arabian farm I worked at had a Polish (I believe), bay mare that was matalic. In her case, it was very distinct from just a shiny coat.

    She was a broodmare and not groomed like a show horse, yet you could even see that metalic glow when she was dirty. I never tired of looking at her. It was just so striking. I've always wondered what caused it. As far as I know, she didn't pass it on to any of her offspring.
    That is how it is w/ our boy, it shows even when he's dirty, fuzzy for winter, in bad light, etc. Weird but cool.
    Blacktree Farm
    Lessons, training & sporthorse sales. Proud supporter of our buckskin German Warmblood stallion, Yeager GF.
    Blacktree Studio
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