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  1. #41
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeblebrox View Post
    "quiet5
    I don't know if Gry & Duncan take trailer in clients--and the last time I checked (last fall) they had a waiting list yeah long for their program...but call them anyway, what's the worst they could say?"

    I know people who do trailer in to them. Sometimes they leave the horses for a week or so tune up. I used to trailer in to them forever ago when they used to be at Shiloh but now they are at a new place ;-)

    As for TOP trainers working with spooky horse moonpie

    Basically most will if the horse has ANY real talent but if you just have a fuss bucket of a spook many trainers do not want to deal with that. There are so many horses who want to do tier job to spend EXTRA time and energy on a horse not cut out for what a loving owner wants to do. YOU mentioned quite a list of things your horse spooks at also.
    The horse I worked with Duncan was scared of his own shadow and every time we went to go by a liverpool he jumped sideways 6 feet but always jumped them and anything else he looked at as he liked the jumping job but unless he was jumping it he was afraid of it. Make sure your horse wants to do the job and is not trying to tell you he is not cut out for it. What worked with my horse is NOT trying to FIX the spook but control anxiety and canter by these things, the more you tried to make him less afraid the more frantic he was. So I always had a plan to get him by the scary stuff and not make it a big deal.

    Good Luck
    My mare will go over it if she can sniff or see it upclose first. But you don't always get those chances at shows, like the oaks where they won't let you school on the grass jumper ring on schooling day.

    I think a big thing has to do with trust in her rider. She never stops until after I have gotten her to bad distances, then she's backed of the whole way. Same thing with the spooking, I thing once she trusts in her rider, she will go b/c we told her to and we've never let her down. She needs a better ride than I can give her.



  2. #42
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    Mar. 14, 2007
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    Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeblebrox View Post
    "ktm2007
    beeblebrox: I think by dirty, she meant her horse doesn't go to the jump just fine, and while on take off drop her shoulder and decide not to go. That is dirty to me. The 5 strides out thing, I wouldn't call it dirty (granted I haven't seen the horse do it, so who am I to say)

    PS I love your sig line!"

    KTM

    sadly I deal with a lot of horses and the ones that stop five strides out fit "roughly" into (I said roughly before the flaming starts) a few categories

    1) Pain
    2) poor riding that has scared the horse
    3) pain and poor riding (they jump awkwardly and land and sting themselves SURPRISE they do not want to do that again and or they are busted in the chops when rider is left behind due to awkward jump)
    4) having the horse over faced by owner or trainer
    5) being nappy and barn or gate sour (often related to the above)
    6) Spoiled horses (often related to the above)
    7) babies or green horse start weaving 5-8 strides out but can be gently coaxed down there.

    Although this horse sounds like she (the OP horse) is a BIT dirty because someone allowed a horse who only jumped 2'9 and a few months back from a injury to jump bigger than her comfort level and she is or may be understandably nappy and dirty because of mismanagement. Now the rehab starts ;-)
    I'm not disagreeing with you. All of those are possibilities. I just don't know if I would put horses that have those issues in the "dirty" category. A difficult ride maybe (for a good reason often), but not truly dirty. I have only run across a handful of truly dirty stoppers. The dirty stopper, to me, is the one I (and Seal Harbor) described. And I missed the part that the OP's horse was coming off of an injury. If that is the case, I would start with a vet!



  3. #43
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    San Ramon/Castro Valley/Brentwood, California
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    I will see what I can do about Derby Hill, if they are out of town, then there isn't much I can do except see the facility perhaps but probably not talk to Buddy himself.

    For what it's worth, I am thinking perhaps, based on what I have read, your horse, like you said, may have been overfaced and/or moved up too soon. These things happen and it's good you recognize something isn't right. But, having not seen your horse and you ride her, well, I am just a tad reluctant to say what to do to help. Sure wish I had time to come see you when I am in Walnut Creek...but my time is really limited while I am there and I have a ton of stuff to do in a short time frame.

    If I were you, I would call Buddy and leave a message or call Vanessa...they have a website and phone # and email; if I see Lisa Quintero while I am at Leap of Faith on Tues, I will see if I can chat with her and see if she has an opening for you to trailer in...all I can do is ask. She's quite good, I like her riding style,I just know nothing about her assistant trainers...I hope I can see some of them while I am there.........
    bethe in Texas



  4. #44
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    Mar. 23, 2008
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    Norcal
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm2007 View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you. All of those are possibilities. I just don't know if I would put horses that have those issues in the "dirty" category. A difficult ride maybe (for a good reason often), but not truly dirty. I have only run across a handful of truly dirty stoppers. The dirty stopper, to me, is the one I (and Seal Harbor) described. And I missed the part that the OP's horse was coming off of an injury. If that is the case, I would start with a vet!
    It wasn't an injury like you are thinking. She cut her leg open and we waited until it was completely healed to put her back into work. JUst where it was at, it kept reopening, she was never lame and we were completely cleared to ride and jump.

    The thing is, she has a lot of talent and she was good at first but then after I started making mistakes, riding her to bad distances, she started losing her confidence.

    We showed her in 3'6" -3'9" b/c jill rode her in the 3ft-3'3 classes before me.



  5. #45
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    Mar. 23, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    I will see what I can do about Derby Hill, if they are out of town, then there isn't much I can do except see the facility perhaps but probably not talk to Buddy himself.

    For what it's worth, I am thinking perhaps, based on what I have read, your horse, like you said, may have been overfaced and/or moved up too soon. These things happen and it's good you recognize something isn't right. But, having not seen your horse and you ride her, well, I am just a tad reluctant to say what to do to help. Sure wish I had time to come see you when I am in Walnut Creek...but my time is really limited while I am there and I have a ton of stuff to do in a short time frame.

    If I were you, I would call Buddy and leave a message or call Vanessa...they have a website and phone # and email; if I see Lisa Quintero while I am at Leap of Faith on Tues, I will see if I can chat with her and see if she has an opening for you to trailer in...all I can do is ask. She's quite good, I like her riding style,I just know nothing about her assistant trainers...I hope I can see some of them while I am there.........
    bethe in Texas
    Thank you so much! That would be great. No worries if you can't ask her. I emailed Buddy explaining the situation. Yes part of it is that we moved her up WAY to fast but there is still the issue that's she's spooky at fences she's never seen before.



  6. #46
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by china515 View Post
    Thank you so much! That would be great. No worries if you can't ask her. I emailed Buddy explaining the situation. Yes part of it is that we moved her up WAY to fast but there is still the issue that's she's spooky at fences she's never seen before.
    I'll do my best......isn't it fascinating that I am in Texas, I am going to California on Monday and on Tues I will do what I can to help a gal already there? Isn't it just amazing what we can all do for each other no matter what the distance is? Such a small world when ya get right down to it! And I am always willing to help someone out no matter where I live!
    Bethe Mounce
    College Station, TX



  7. #47
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    Mar. 23, 2008
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    Norcal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    I'll do my best......isn't it fascinating that I am in Texas, I am going to California on Monday and on Tues I will do what I can to help a gal already there? Isn't it just amazing what we can all do for each other no matter what the distance is? Such a small world when ya get right down to it! And I am always willing to help someone out no matter where I live!
    Bethe Mounce
    College Station, TX
    It really is amazing! Funny how I never thought that a person who could help me the most would be living in texas!! Seriously, thanks so much for all your help.



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by china515 View Post
    It really is amazing! Funny how I never thought that a person who could help me the most would be living in texas!! Seriously, thanks so much for all your help.
    It is my pleasure believe me! The irony of it all! A Texas gal helping a California gal...you know, I am really certain moving to California at the end of this year will be the right decision. My horses may not come with me at that time, but they will show up eventually and I am sure we will all find time to meet up with each other.
    Bethe in Texas



  9. #49
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    Mar. 23, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    It is my pleasure believe me! The irony of it all! A Texas gal helping a California gal...you know, I am really certain moving to California at the end of this year will be the right decision. My horses may not come with me at that time, but they will show up eventually and I am sure we will all find time to meet up with each other.
    Bethe in Texas
    Yeah definitely! That's cool that you are moving to California! I hope it works out for you. I heard texas is wonderful. Are you just looking at Lise or are there other trainers you are considering?



  10. #50
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by china515 View Post
    Yeah definitely! That's cool that you are moving to California! I hope it works out for you. I heard texas is wonderful. Are you just looking at Lise or are there other trainers you are considering?

    Actually I am not looking for a trainer, just a good and safe boarding facility for the time being. My coach is near Burbank (Somis to be exact); I have been with him for going on 8 years, he comes to Texas every other month for clinics. Now I know California is pretty much dressage mecca...that's what I do now, in a former life I was a pretty tough jumper rider. Texas is nice, but the heat/humidity in the summers can be horrid. In my part of Texas it just really gets so dad gum hot. The sun is brutal and it's tough to find an indoor now that Cedar Trace is gone. So you have to ride really early in the mornings or really late at night. I am DONE with the weather! I want cold! And NO humidity! I want to see real mountains and hills and NO flat lands! :-) I want to trail ride in the open space and just enjoy my horses as opposed to showing.
    Bethe in Texas



  11. #51
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by china515 View Post
    Thank you so much! That would be great. No worries if you can't ask her. I emailed Buddy explaining the situation. Yes part of it is that we moved her up WAY to fast but there is still the issue that's she's spooky at fences she's never seen before.
    I got an email from Vanessa....just awhile ago. Shall I forward it to you? I think you would be in the right place with them. He really is quite the rider and so is she. And I think you would get your money's worth and then some.
    Bethe in Texas



  12. #52
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    I got an email from Vanessa....just awhile ago. Shall I forward it to you? I think you would be in the right place with them. He really is quite the rider and so is she. And I think you would get your money's worth and then some.
    Bethe in Texas
    So I got an email back from them too. I am not sure if I could give the level of commitment they want. They only take client who trailer in that are willing to go to so many shows and meet regularly for lessons. Unfortunately, some months I will have a ton of time and others I can be quite busy. Any other suggestions?



  13. #53
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Has anyone heard anything about Hugh White of Petaluma. I met him at a horse show once and just loved him.



  14. #54
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonPie730 View Post
    So I got an email back from them too. I am not sure if I could give the level of commitment they want. They only take client who trailer in that are willing to go to so many shows and meet regularly for lessons. Unfortunately, some months I will have a ton of time and others I can be quite busy. Any other suggestions?
    She mentioned that to me as well. I really like L. Quintero at Leap of Faith. I have seen her ride (albeit only on video) and liked how she handled the horse she was on. When I am there on Tues, this coming Tues, I will see if she is there or if one of her assistants is there and see what I can do. I won't promise anything but I am happy to give it a go, in a professional and discreet manner. The owners of Leap of Faith, from their emails, are so nice and welcoming. I am looking forward to meeting them. Heck, I am looking forward to being in California!



  15. #55
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    Nov. 19, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonPie730 View Post
    So I got an email back from them too. I am not sure if I could give the level of commitment they want. They only take client who trailer in that are willing to go to so many shows and meet regularly for lessons. Unfortunately, some months I will have a ton of time and others I can be quite busy. Any other suggestions?
    Lesson with her at least once...let her assess the situation.
    And then she can help[ you find the right person for your level of commitment.

    It sounds like you two have lost confidence in each other and are feeding off each other...
    *************************
    Go, Baby, Go......
    Aefvue Farms Footing Inspector



  16. #56
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    She mentioned that to me as well. I really like L. Quintero at Leap of Faith. I have seen her ride (albeit only on video) and liked how she handled the horse she was on. When I am there on Tues, this coming Tues, I will see if she is there or if one of her assistants is there and see what I can do. I won't promise anything but I am happy to give it a go, in a professional and discreet manner. The owners of Leap of Faith, from their emails, are so nice and welcoming. I am looking forward to meeting them. Heck, I am looking forward to being in California!
    Lise is very upfront and open about the fact that their in-house regular clients who are showing take priority, it's in their newslettter. Lise is rarely around on weekends. Lise and Todd work mostly with full-time clients horses and the students showing.

    John Ducharme is their assistant who stays home most of the time. He has been out for a while but is coming back now. They do a set # of group lessons at certain times both Saturday and Sunday, they are $75 plus the haul in fee of $20. They welcome haul-in lessons and are very casual about them. I am 100% sure you would have no problem hauling in for the lessons and joining in. The groups are not grouped by ability, it's kinda who shows up. John is REALLY good. But in all honestly you will probably not get much hand holding or the kind of attention I think you will want after describing your horse.

    In a nutshell it's a show barn, Lise and Todd are gone a lot, and the lessons are groups and really vary. You will not get a lot of 1x1 attention by just dropping in every once in a while. However, you will get good training and it's a really nice and fun group of people. The lessons are blocked for 1.5 hour and they do take their time with each person.



  17. #57
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    Lise is very upfront and open about the fact that their in-house regular clients who are showing take priority, it's in their newslettter. Lise is rarely around on weekends. Lise and Todd work mostly with full-time clients horses and the students showing.

    John Ducharme is their assistant who stays home most of the time. He has been out for a while but is coming back now. They do a set # of group lessons at certain times both Saturday and Sunday, they are $75 plus the haul in fee of $20. They welcome haul-in lessons and are very casual about them. I am 100% sure you would have no problem hauling in for the lessons and joining in. The groups are not grouped by ability, it's kinda who shows up. John is REALLY good. But in all honestly you will probably not get much hand holding or the kind of attention I think you will want after describing your horse.

    In a nutshell it's a show barn, Lise and Todd are gone a lot, and the lessons are groups and really vary. You will not get a lot of 1x1 attention by just dropping in every once in a while. However, you will get good training and it's a really nice and fun group of people. The lessons are blocked for 1.5 hour and they do take their time with each person.
    I am glad to hear her assistant is good. If I do decide to do the hunter/jumper stuff with my 5 year old, I hesitate to go that route on my own---been a long time since I have been in a jumper ring! Yes, I felt they are primarily a show barn and gone alot, but heck, I'd be happy to have access to them when I needed it. Leap of Faith is sounding better each day!



  18. #58
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    Okay so Duncan and Gry emailed me back and theey said they can definitely try to help me out and that they accept trailer in clients and will meet up with them at shows. So it looks like I might be heading in that direction. PLUS I think trailering in for lessons will be so good b/c it's the same concept as shows, she will have to jump jumps that aren't that familiar but I will have a trainer helping me while we are doing it.



  19. #59
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    What do you guys think of Hugh White or Patrick Seaton?



  20. #60
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    "MoonPie730 What do you guys think of Hugh White or Patrick Seaton?
    Mar. 30, 2008 11:42 AM"

    since you ask

    What I think is you have mentioned a lot of good trainers including the one you moved from. Clients have voices too if you get my meaning and when things move to fast you say NO or we need to slow down. I rode with and for Rudy in his years out at MEC and I know him and while he is gruff you tell him you want to slow down, you did not so your horse did it for you ;-( I see you looking at shipping this mare 1 to 3 hours all over the country when you have some amazing folks in your area who could help get your more on track and teach her that not every jump is going to come perfect and then when that is done you could get back on and move on with your showing. I agree you need to learn how to ride your spooky mare but at the same time she may need some rides from a pro on a more regular basis. CHASING hot names in the show world is not going to make you a better rider or undo what happened to your horse but consistency might> I also have to say you can find cheaper talent locally where you are and save the money for your showing when your ready, I doubt you need a $100 plus hours lesson to fix your problem plus gas and time. Some day sure but I think the allure of these trainers is hard but albeit it is consistency your horse needs more than big names!
    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
    Confucius



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