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  1. #21
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    Mar. 14, 2007
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    Washington
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    As far as your question, "are they good with spooky horses" goes, you are probably just going to have to call around and start asking some questions. (like can you trailer in for lessons...) If you are upfront about your horses issues, and what you want/need to accomplish with lessons, the people you are interested in will tell you if it sounds like you will fit into their program or not. OR, they may have you come out for a few lessons.

    You have gotten some great names in the area, start calling and asking some questions!

    Good luck!



  2. #22
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    Feb. 25, 1999
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    San Ramon/Castro Valley/Brentwood, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by shade View Post
    I would deffinately give Buddy a call..I"ve also known Buddy for years. Buddy's the type that will try and help anyone he can. I can't recommend him enough. It's amazing to sit and watch him ride and teach.
    I completely agree. Even though it's been years, I remember him so well, and well, his riding.....speaks for itself. He is so good with the sensitive thoroughbreds and any other kind of horse. A quiet effective rider with some real instinct about what to do and when to do it. He clicks with every horse he has sat on in my opinion. I cannot recommend him enough either. And absolutely, he will help anyone--I have seen him do that, and he does it in such a good and tactful way. I have seen him go out of his way to help someone.

    I did email his farm this morning and so far, no reply; if I do not hear from them by Sunday, I'll call and see about a Tues afternoon appt...after all, I would like to see his place myself and even though he will not remember me (it's been way too long ago), I'd like to see what he looks like now.
    Bethe in Texas



  3. #23
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by shade View Post
    Yes on the shipping in. They had people come in for lessons when I was up visiting them. They are both great with spooky horses. Buddy grew up riding TB's...you really can't beat the expierience Buddy has. And they are both exceptional horseman, and super nice people also.
    He sounds great!!! Yeah it's a tough call, a lot of good trainers out there but some of them aren't willing to work with difficult horses, they would rather just sell you a new one.

    Does anyone know Buddy's rates? I couldn't find them on the website.



  4. #24
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    I completely agree. Even though it's been years, I remember him so well, and well, his riding.....speaks for itself. He is so good with the sensitive thoroughbreds and any other kind of horse. A quiet effective rider with some real instinct about what to do and when to do it. He clicks with every horse he has sat on in my opinion. I cannot recommend him enough either. And absolutely, he will help anyone--I have seen him do that, and he does it in such a good and tactful way. I have seen him go out of his way to help someone.

    I did email his farm this morning and so far, no reply; if I do not hear from them by Sunday, I'll call and see about a Tues afternoon appt...after all, I would like to see his place myself and even though he will not remember me (it's been way too long ago), I'd like to see what he looks like now.
    Bethe in Texas
    If you are able to get out there, definitely let me know what you think! I would also love to hear what you think of Lise.



  5. #25
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    fwiw, I was at Leap of Faith for a few months. Lise, Todd and John can ride and work with just about anything, all 3 are about as competent as a rider gets. They do allow trailer in lessons, although they are $75 plus a $20 haul in fee for a group lesson. I would imagine that Buddy charges double that if you could even get a lesson with him. I know full training at Derby Hill was $1700/month 3 years ago.

    If you have a "difficult" horse who is green IMO it would be best to find someone local who is good with that type of horse, plenty of trainers like that in the Sac area. What part of Sacramento are you in?

    The top tier trainers in the Bay Area are really pricey and really busy and tend to only have enough time for their full time clients who are showing a lot.



  6. #26
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    fwiw, I was at Leap of Faith for a few months. Lise, Todd and John can ride and work with just about anything, all 3 are about as competent as a rider gets. They do allow trailer in lessons, although they are $75 plus a $20 haul in fee for a group lesson. I would imagine that Buddy charges double that if you could even get a lesson with him. I know full training at Derby Hill was $1700/month 3 years ago.

    If you have a "difficult" horse who is green IMO it would be best to find someone local who is good with that type of horse, plenty of trainers like that in the Sac area. What part of Sacramento are you in?

    The top tier trainers in the Bay Area are really pricey and really busy and tend to only have enough time for their full time clients who are showing a lot.
    My horse is in West Sac. I finally found a place that my horse is happy at, so I am not willing to move, just trailer in for lessons and meet up at shows.

    My horse was at Rudy's but he would rather sell you a new horse than work on a difficult one. I know all the names...carol wright, vanvleck, leone, debbie stone, denise parker, heather whitney, patty ball, los lagos with jill, etc. I just am at a loss on who to my horse to. I need a trainer that can help me, but also get on my horse at shows.



  7. #27
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    What are your goals? What division, what shows, how often? Is your horse really fancy but difficult, or just a middle of the road horse with a couple issues? What breed is the horse?

    There are some lesser known names who are a bit cheaper and more than competent out there depending on what your ultimate goals are.



  8. #28
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    Jan. 15, 2004
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    montville ct
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
    I completely agree. Even though it's been years, I remember him so well, and well, his riding.....speaks for itself. He is so good with the sensitive thoroughbreds and any other kind of horse. A quiet effective rider with some real instinct about what to do and when to do it. He clicks with every horse he has sat on in my opinion. I cannot recommend him enough either. And absolutely, he will help anyone--I have seen him do that, and he does it in such a good and tactful way. I have seen him go out of his way to help someone.

    I did email his farm this morning and so far, no reply; if I do not hear from them by Sunday, I'll call and see about a Tues afternoon appt...after all, I would like to see his place myself and even though he will not remember me (it's been way too long ago), I'd like to see what he looks like now.
    Bethe in Texas
    I knowt\ they are at Pebble Beach right now and won't be back at the farm until monday maybe even tuesday

    And you are dead on about Buddy. I think he could ride just about anything and do it well. He's amazing to watch.

    And yes you; could get a lesson with him. He is very down to earth.



  9. #29
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    What are your goals? What division, what shows, how often? Is your horse really fancy but difficult, or just a middle of the road horse with a couple issues? What breed is the horse?

    There are some lesser known names who are a bit cheaper and more than competent out there depending on what your ultimate goals are.

    I showed in the 3'6"-3'9" division with my horse. I think my horse is pretty nice. She has great movement and has an amazing jump on her. Rudy really liked her at first...until he realized she wasn't an easy fix. Before her saw her, he wanted us to sell her and buy something from him, but once we got her there, he wanted me to keep her.

    Honestly, I feel like it's a waste to spend a ton of money on a horse that isn't competitive b/c they aren't going around that well. I won't have a game plan until I get her into training and see how's she's doing. It's okay if I start with someone who doesn't go to the bigger shows. Once my horse is ready, then I can find somebody who does.

    My horse is a holsteiner. I think part of the issue was moving her up WAY too quickly. Maybe just doing 3ft for now. I think she has the scope for the low A/Os and POSSIBLY the highs...not sure right now.



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shade View Post
    I knowt\ they are at Pebble Beach right now and won't be back at the farm until monday maybe even tuesday

    And you are dead on about Buddy. I think he could ride just about anything and do it well. He's amazing to watch.

    And yes you; could get a lesson with him. He is very down to earth.
    Do you happen to know his rates for trailering in and shows?



  11. #31
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    Mar. 14, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonPie730 View Post
    I showed in the 3'6"-3'9" division with my horse. I think my horse is pretty nice. She has great movement and has an amazing jump on her. Rudy really liked her at first...until he realized she wasn't an easy fix. Before her saw her, he wanted us to sell her and buy something from him, but once we got her there, he wanted me to keep her.

    Honestly, I feel like it's a waste to spend a ton of money on a horse that isn't competitive b/c they aren't going around that well. I won't have a game plan until I get her into training and see how's she's doing. It's okay if I start with someone who doesn't go to the bigger shows. Once my horse is ready, then I can find somebody who does.

    My horse is a holsteiner. I think part of the issue was moving her up WAY too quickly. Maybe just doing 3ft for now. I think she has the scope for the low A/Os and POSSIBLY the highs...not sure right now.
    How old is she? And, when you say spooky, do you mean she refuses? Or that she "peaks" right in front and then goes? Or peaks over the top? I'm asking because when my holsteiner mare was young, she would sometimes peak right in front and then go (not a stop and pop, but you could feel her peak) Or she would do it over the top. She didn't have a stop in her one bit, and she was never spooky at random times. With mine, it was something she grew out of. Just curious!



  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm2007 View Post
    How old is she? And, when you say spooky, do you mean she refuses? Or that she "peaks" right in front and then goes? Or peaks over the top? I'm asking because when my holsteiner mare was young, she would sometimes peak right in front and then go (not a stop and pop, but you could feel her peak) Or she would do it over the top. She didn't have a stop in her one bit, and she was never spooky at random times. With mine, it was something she grew out of. Just curious!
    Okay so first off, she moved to Leones right after she came off of an injury and had a couple of months off. She had only been shown up to 2'9" as a five year old. We then took her to the oaks, showpark and put her in the 3'6"-3'9". So she jumped up a few divisions.

    She is spooky if you don't give her a chance to see/sniff and jump the fences before hand. We took her to the oaks and on schooling day we had to school in a different ring than we showed in, so she didn't' get a chance to see the fences or go around the arena. Jill rode her in the class before me the first few days and she did okay, but was a little backed off. When divisions started and jill couldn't ride, she would go around, until I made a mistake and then she would start stopping. Not dirty, 5 strides out you knew it was coming.

    Nonetheless, I think those issues were b/c we moved her up WAY too fast. But she is still spooky, like 5 strides out she is saying "I don't want to get near that!" With a strong ride, it's not a problem. I think she just needs lots of mileage with a trainer before we ever throw me back on her.

    I do think that she has grown up a TON, so much calmer, but the spook is still in her. She is 8 years old now.

    She's not a last minute stopper and it's usually only to coupes, liverpools, boxes, gates, etc.



  13. #33
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    Jul. 22, 2005
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    Nor-Cal
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    "quiet5
    I don't know if Gry & Duncan take trailer in clients--and the last time I checked (last fall) they had a waiting list yeah long for their program...but call them anyway, what's the worst they could say?"

    I know people who do trailer in to them. Sometimes they leave the horses for a week or so tune up. I used to trailer in to them forever ago when they used to be at Shiloh but now they are at a new place ;-)

    As for TOP trainers working with spooky horse moonpie

    Basically most will if the horse has ANY real talent but if you just have a fuss bucket of a spook many trainers do not want to deal with that. There are so many horses who want to do tier job to spend EXTRA time and energy on a horse not cut out for what a loving owner wants to do. YOU mentioned quite a list of things your horse spooks at also.
    The horse I worked with Duncan was scared of his own shadow and every time we went to go by a liverpool he jumped sideways 6 feet but always jumped them and anything else he looked at as he liked the jumping job but unless he was jumping it he was afraid of it. Make sure your horse wants to do the job and is not trying to tell you he is not cut out for it. What worked with my horse is NOT trying to FIX the spook but control anxiety and canter by these things, the more you tried to make him less afraid the more frantic he was. So I always had a plan to get him by the scary stuff and not make it a big deal.

    Good Luck
    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
    Confucius



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonPie730 View Post
    Okay so first off, she moved to Leones right after she came off of an injury and had a couple of months off. She had only been shown up to 2'9" as a five year old. We then took her to the oaks, showpark and put her in the 3'6"-3'9". So she jumped up a few divisions.

    She is spooky if you don't give her a chance to see/sniff and jump the fences before hand. We took her to the oaks and on schooling day we had to school in a different ring than we showed in, so she didn't' get a chance to see the fences or go around the arena. Jill rode her in the class before me the first few days and she did okay, but was a little backed off. When divisions started and jill couldn't ride, she would go around, until I made a mistake and then she would start stopping. Not dirty, 5 strides out you knew it was coming.

    Nonetheless, I think those issues were b/c we moved her up WAY too fast. But she is still spooky, like 5 strides out she is saying "I don't want to get near that!" With a strong ride, it's not a problem. I think she just needs lots of mileage with a trainer before we ever throw me back on her.

    I do think that she has grown up a TON, so much calmer, but the spook is still in her. She is 8 years old now.

    She's not a last minute stopper and it's usually only to coupes, liverpools, boxes, gates, etc.
    From the description, it just sounds like she was moved up to fast. OR, it may be a matter of just getting some show miles on her (does she do that same thing at home?) For what it is worth, I went through sort of the same thing. But mine was more of a stargazer (actually all the mares I have owned are like that) especially when she was new to the horse show world. She liked to know what everyone else on the showgrounds was doing. Like, "Oh...see that guy is getting a hot-dog and a lemonade. I want that....OH MY THERE'S A JUMP RIGHT THERE!" You get the picture!

    Good luck with finding a trainer who will be a good match with you and your mare!



  15. #35
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    Jul. 22, 2005
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    Nor-Cal
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    Default uh just read down further.. 5 strides out is DIRTY

    MoonPie730
    "jill couldn't ride, she would go around, until I made a mistake and then she would start stopping. Not dirty, 5 strides out you knew it was coming.

    Nonetheless, I think those issues were b/c we moved her up WAY too fast. But she is still spooky, like 5 strides out she is saying "I don't want to get near that!" With a strong ride, it's not a problem. I think she just needs lots of mileage with a trainer before we ever throw me back on her. "

    You know your horse so you may be right in moving her up to soon but 5 strides out is pretty dirty and not spooky at a jump, they are not even close enough to get a good look to spook. Sounds like your making the right choice to stay off and work with someone who can help her gain confidence although Jill is a pretty damned good rider. Was she stopping 5 strides out with Jill or just with you?
    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
    Confucius



  16. #36
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    Mar. 14, 2007
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    Washington
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    beeblebrox: I think by dirty, she meant her horse doesn't go to the jump just fine, and while on take off drop her shoulder and decide not to go. That is dirty to me. The 5 strides out thing, I wouldn't call it dirty (granted I haven't seen the horse do it, so who am I to say)

    PS I love your sig line!



  17. #37
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    Jul. 22, 2005
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    "ktm2007
    beeblebrox: I think by dirty, she meant her horse doesn't go to the jump just fine, and while on take off drop her shoulder and decide not to go. That is dirty to me. The 5 strides out thing, I wouldn't call it dirty (granted I haven't seen the horse do it, so who am I to say)

    PS I love your sig line!"

    KTM

    sadly I deal with a lot of horses and the ones that stop five strides out fit "roughly" into (I said roughly before the flaming starts) a few categories

    1) Pain
    2) poor riding that has scared the horse
    3) pain and poor riding (they jump awkwardly and land and sting themselves SURPRISE they do not want to do that again and or they are busted in the chops when rider is left behind due to awkward jump)
    4) having the horse over faced by owner or trainer
    5) being nappy and barn or gate sour (often related to the above)
    6) Spoiled horses (often related to the above)
    7) babies or green horse start weaving 5-8 strides out but can be gently coaxed down there.

    Although this horse sounds like she (the OP horse) is a BIT dirty because someone allowed a horse who only jumped 2'9 and a few months back from a injury to jump bigger than her comfort level and she is or may be understandably nappy and dirty because of mismanagement. Now the rehab starts ;-)
    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
    Confucius



  18. #38
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    Sep. 6, 2003
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    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
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    Sucking back 5 strides out and telling you they are not going is not dirty. Going to the jump and saying "we're going, we're going, we're going, ooops, nope you're going by yourself I will stay on this side." at the bottom of the jump. That is dirty.



  19. #39
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    Mar. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm2007 View Post
    beeblebrox: I think by dirty, she meant her horse doesn't go to the jump just fine, and while on take off drop her shoulder and decide not to go. That is dirty to me. The 5 strides out thing, I wouldn't call it dirty (granted I haven't seen the horse do it, so who am I to say)

    PS I love your sig line!
    Yes that's exactly what I meant. Say there's a liverpool, she is spooking at it the whole way to it, which to me says it's pretty honest. VS cantering down to a fence, acting like she was going to jump it and then stopping at the base...that is dirty.

    She was backed off with Jill, but if you stay up with leg the whole way saying, you will go...she would jump it. But then I would get her to bad distances and I think she just didn't trust me, I think MY RIDING scared her. She was fine with me if Jill rode her in the class before, but on the days where I was the first ride, as soon as I got her to a bad distance, the stopping would start.

    Definitely the stopping was b/c we moved her up too quickly, but the spooking..it doesn't matter how high or low, she just doesn't like stuff underneath the fence. If it's a plain fence she will always go. And if when she's spooking at something, you can stay sitting up and keep your leg on and keep her straight, she will go.

    I really think she needs to have miles with a trainer until she gets to the point where she TRUSTS her rider and even if she's unsure, she will still go.



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seal Harbor View Post
    Sucking back 5 strides out and telling you they are not going is not dirty. Going to the jump and saying "we're going, we're going, we're going, ooops, nope you're going by yourself I will stay on this side." at the bottom of the jump. That is dirty.

    YES exactly, I watch more riders fall off this way b/c they think their horse is leaving. My horse is not like that at all, if you can get her to the base, she will go. It's getting her to it. You know when it's going to happen. The whole way she is sucked back.



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