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  1. #1
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    Oct. 10, 2006
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    Default Tying up

    We recieved a call last night that our three year old tied up last week and with a week off and walking tied up again today. Needless to ssay Im going to pick her up. I have not experienced this before so Im curious. How long does this hiatus last? What can be done to properly care for this. Im guessing she will be getting some stall and paddock time. And one last question. I always thought that baking soda or powder, cant be sure, was an easy and cheap addative to help prevent tying up. We had an appaloosa who tied up often and was given one of the two to help. and she didnt. anway, enlighten me please. thanks so much.



  2. #2
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    Jan. 22, 2006
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    Default

    Well. I had wrote out a big thing and then the site timed out. Take bloodwork to see how badly she tied up. I wouldn't see why she has to go to the farm.

    I've never had a problem getting horses to stop tying up and usually don't mind those horses. It usually just takes a change in routine, whether it be walking before galloping, changing when they go to the track, exercise rider, how they train, etc. The problem is generally the routine you just have to figure out what part of it.

    You can feed her a supplement with vitamin E and selenium.

    You can try the feed "re-leve". It gets rave reviews, I've never needed to use it, but it is usually the easy way for trainers to not have to change what they doing and the feed takes care of the problem. The filly I saw on it was so doggy I just didn't like it, but that probably was just that one filly. Someone here probably has experience feeding it.

    http://www.re-leve.com/management.html

    This website pretty much somes up what I said and has info about the feed. Lots of good info.
    Last edited by solargal; Mar. 25, 2008 at 10:50 PM.



  3. #3
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    I agree that you need to start with the blood work. I have had tons of horses who tied up in my career, but not one that ever tied up while being hand walked without training first. That would concern me. There are about as many treatments/causes as there are horses. The trick is to find what works for that particular horse via trial and error. I don't seek out tie up horses by any stretch of the imagination as they can definitely be a pain in the rear, but I have been very successful with them. I hope you get her figured out.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 28, 1999
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    Minnesota
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    Default

    We used Re-leve for our TB filly at the track. It seemed to help, but the real problem was with the rider. Once we changed riders, she did not have a problem and she was switched over to Purina "Race Ready.

    We did the blood work several times and also the muscle biopsy. The blood showed she had tied up and the muscle biopsy pointed to using Re-leve. She did not eat the Re-leve that great so luckily for us, getting her relaxed with a great rider was the answer.
    Good Luck to you!
    Last edited by Pat Ness; Mar. 26, 2008 at 09:57 AM. Reason: updates



  5. #5
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Default

    I agree that blood work should be done first... then trying to find a reason, like over exitement, stress, etc...

    There are many products on the market, along with a change in diet that can help.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexMakowski View Post
    I always thought that baking soda or powder, cant be sure, was an easy and cheap addative to help prevent tying up. We had an appaloosa who tied up often and was given one of the two to help. and she didnt. anway, enlighten me please. thanks so much.
    It's baking soda. Between a tablespoon and a handful in the feed. It may take a few days before they eat it. Baking soda reduced lactic acid buildup. But, check with your trainer and racetrack vet first - baking soda is also used in milkshakes and you don't want to get a bad test.

    I agree w/ everyone else - you need to pull blood and unless something else is going on, you don't need to do a layup. Although, tying up with only walking is concerning.

    Good luck!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2007
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    Default

    There are also some herbal concoctions that are available for tying up, atlthough you do need to be careful if racing as some of these may result in positives.

    Have a friend that specializes with a website if anybody is interested.



  8. #8
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    Oct. 5, 1999
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    Default

    One trainer I worked for gave any horse that tied up the following once a day, with 100% cure rate -

    1/8 teaspoon of baking soda
    a sprinkle of Lite salt (Morton's in the light blue bottle)



  9. #9
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    Default

    I think if you run across anything that works 100% of the time, it probably didn't work at all and you just got lucky and the problem fixed itself. Nothing works 100% of the time.



  10. #10
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    Seriously, it did work 100% of the time. Within a day, or 2 at most. They had 50 horses in training and I worked there for 3 years.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Im sorry if I didnt make clear. She didnt tie up while walking. She had a week off with hand walking. She went out and did a trot se. Then the next day she gallopped and tied up. Sorry for the confusion.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexMakowski View Post
    Im sorry if I didnt make clear. She didnt tie up while walking. She had a week off with hand walking. She went out and did a trot se. Then the next day she gallopped and tied up. Sorry for the confusion.
    That makes more sense and sounds a lot less alarming. One thing to consider: horses that tie up often do better not having days off. Your trainer obviously knows the situation 100x better than I do, but one idea is to keep her doing something - at least jogging with a pony or going in a eurocizer - every day you can.

    How is she doing now?



  13. #13
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Granite City, IL.
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    Default

    Tying up is also known as "Monday Morning Sickness" it used to happen frequently back in the day's of horses pulling the Milk Wagons. The Milk horses worked 6 day's a week getting Sunday off. But on Sunday they were fed the same amount of grain as they would be given on a working day. So come Monday morning partway through their Milk Run they would Tie up.

    Tying up is caused by lactic acid build up. What I have always done and had pretty good results is if a horse is going to hand walk for a week cut back the concentrates (grain) a bit. The baking soda does help as well as it helps to cut the lactic acid build up.

    Have your vet do bloodwork, and ask him/her about whether it would be in your horses best interest to cut back some of the grain ration on the day's he/she walks, to keep the acidic levels in the blood down, and ask if adding a bit of baking soda will help to absorb some of the extra acid in the blood stream.
    Barn Brats Horse Themed Glassware
    www.cmmbarnbrats.com



  14. #14
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    Sep. 19, 2005
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    MN
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    Default

    I am fortunate to live near one of the main locations doing 'tying up' research - the University of MN's Leatherdale Equine Center. There are a LOT of good articles on
    muscle issues in their site. This link is to one on 'exertional rhabdomylosis', tying-up,
    in both the chronic and sporadic forms.
    http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/ER.html

    Tying-up is not related to lactic acid, but is related to how muscles use/don't use energy stores available to them. In some horses the condition is worsened by stress.
    There is also a list of helpful feeds on there someplace, so if your horse won't eat the Re-leve, there are other options. Depending on the type of muscle issue, your horse may require more fat or less carbs -- there is NO single 'cure all'.



  15. #15
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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  16. #16
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    Apr. 2, 2008
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    Default

    DMG works well for some horses.

    A horse that ties up chronically can benefit from some turnout each day...so if you have a horse on the track, you might want to find a trainer at a training center, etc.

    I do have a question - I heard an injection of RVI can help with horses that tie up...any truth to this?



  17. #17
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    Apr. 2, 2008
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    Default

    Also, I've found that our horses have tied up the most when on Omolene 200. When we've been on Blue Seal Vintage Racer, we haven't had one tie-up. I know it can be hereditary and a part of each horse, but the diet can make a difference.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 1999
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    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
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    Default

    Well. I had wrote out a big thing and then the site timed out. Take bloodwork to see how badly she tied up. I wouldn't see why she has to go to the farm.

    I've never had a problem getting horses to stop tying up and usually don't mind those horses. It usually just takes a change in routine, whether it be walking before galloping, changing when they go to the track, exercise rider, how they train, etc. The problem is generally the routine you just have to figure out what part of it.

    You can feed her a supplement with vitamin E and selenium.

    You can try the feed "re-leve". It gets rave reviews, I've never needed to use it, but it is usually the easy way for trainers to not have to change what they doing and the feed takes care of the problem. The filly I saw on it was so doggy I just didn't like it, but that probably was just that one filly. Someone here probably has experience feeding it.

    http://www.re-leve.com/management.html

    This website pretty much somes up what I said and has info about the feed. Lots of good info.
    I'm very glad to see that accurate information is finally filtering down from the research lab! So much of what you will be told is based on misconception, including the lactic acid theory (false).

    Go to my COMH blog (see link below) where I have posted two blogs (click on "archives") on tying up, with protocols for what to do, and getting a horse back in work and keeping him there. (On this, please also check your PM's)

    (And yes, this board has a habit of swallowing posts before they appear, which is very frustrating, and why I created the blogs at the first opportunity!)

    When you are finished with the blogs, also click the KER link--they are the research company who formulated ReLeve with Dr. Stephanie Valberg (et al) of the University of Minnesota. She is the foremost expert in the field on the muscular disorders that cause symptoms of tying up.

    It's manageable, but takes some doing; as I said, also check your PM's!
    Last edited by M. O'Connor; Apr. 3, 2008 at 07:47 AM.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 1999
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    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
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    Default

    On the palatability of Releve--generally, it's pretty well accepted by most horses. My own horse is a VERY fussy eater, and fortunately had no trouble accepting it. One very interesting (and very recent) research project by KER has investigated the effects of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) on the digestive system.

    As part of my homework for KER's renewal of my ReLeve sponsorship, they sent me a copy of the report ("Feeding Protected Sodium Bicarbonate Attenuates Hindgut Acidosis in Horses Fed a High Grain Ration, 2007/ Vol 53/AAEP proceedings). It took me days to read and understand it. (Note that my sponsorship originally came about when I approached Hallway with a proposal after I'd already spent a year trekking 6 hrs roundtrip to Belmont Racetrack from Eastern LI to buy it).

    They have determined that sodium bicarbonate is useful in stabilizing erratic PH of the hindgut, (THIS is where the lactic acid factor comes into play, not in the muscles) but that fed straight out of the box, it needs to be given in prohibited quantities in order for effective amounts to reach the hindgut. Symptoms of this condition ("subclinical acidocis") include decreased appetite and poorly absorbed nutrients (=skinny horse). They have developed a buffered supplement called EquiShure ("protected sodium bicarbonate" or PSB) that survives the initial digestive process and reaches the hindgut, and it can be fed in smaller quantities that are permitted for racing.

    My horse has always been quite "lean," even when in good condition. He will be starting on this supplement, and if my understanding of the approach we are going to take is correct (it actually seems like taking it a little far, but that's science), I will be collecting before/after fecal samples to measure the effects on the PH.

    KER has relatively few supplements (compared to other companies) in its line of products. All are specialty products designed and proven in the lab through research trials to address specific issues, and are not offered based on supposition or anecdotes.

    I'm not sure if the paper they sent me is online-Googling it brings up the 2007 AAEP procedings schedule-if anyone wants me to fax it to them, PM me w/a fax number.

    Just another interesting part of the digestive/metabolic puzzle...
    Last edited by M. O'Connor; Apr. 3, 2008 at 07:49 AM.



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