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  1. #1
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    Default Statistic gathering of Rider Deaths - help fill in the blanks

    Okay folks, I've been researching all day and I have a partial list completed but I need your help filling in the blanks. I unfortunately have basically no data for horse deaths, so that is another project all together.

    Here is a breakdown of rider death by year:
    1993: 4 deaths
    1994: 1 death
    1995: 1 death
    1996: 0? deaths
    1997: 1? death
    1998: 2? deaths
    1999: 5 deaths
    2000: 5? deaths
    2001: ?
    2002: ?
    2003: ?
    2004: 3+ deaths
    2005: ?
    2006: 3+ deaths
    2007: 9 deaths

    We thought 11 deaths for 2007 but that is incorrect; there were 11 deaths in the Nov '06- Nov '07 span, not the calendar year of 2007.

    Here are the names of the riders that I have so far:
    1997: Amanda Warrington
    1998: David Foster, Keith Taylor
    1999: Polly Phillips, Peter McLean, Simon Long, Peter Slade, Peta Beckett
    2000: Jemima Johnson, Rhonda Mason, Mark Meyers, __________
    2004: Samantha Hudson, Caroline Pratt, Cindy Burge, _________
    2006: Sherelle Duke, Mia Eriksson, Kim Hyung Chil, _________
    2007: Maïa Boutanos, Amanda Bader, Amelie Cohen, Jo-Anne Williams, Julie Silly, Elin Stalberg, Tina Richter-Vietor, Anke Wolfe, Eleanor Brennan

    Obviously, need names and numbers of the missing years, as well.
    Last edited by TB or not TB?; Mar. 16, 2008 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Adding info in



  2. #2
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    Default

    In 1998 Keith Taylor at Radnor and I think Amanda Warrington was either the same year or the year before



  3. #3
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    Default

    geez, what the heck happened in 2000???


    Edited: I found it on the other thread:

    Various references to the previous spate of deaths:
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/05/13/horse.2.t_0.php
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/21/vivekchaudhary
    http://www.indiavarta.com/olympics/F...nd+Joy&rLink=0 (from Reuters)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olym...ian/852582.stm
    http://books.google.com/books?id=am6...=frontcover&vq (Sports Law, Simon Gardiner, 3rd Ed, pp. 117-118)
    Last edited by ss3777; Mar. 16, 2008 at 08:58 PM. Reason: answer



  4. #4
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    Default

    Amanda died the year before
    Quote Originally Posted by pasodqueen View Post
    In 1998 Keith Taylor at Radnor and I think Amanda Warrington was either the same year or the year before
    "A little less chit-chat a little more pitter-pat"



  5. #5
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    Default

    Caroline Pratt died at Burghley in 2004.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  6. #6
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    Exclamation

    In light of some of the recent events, this is just a bit morbid. I'm sure you could google it without posting it here.



  7. #7
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    Default

    TB, I believe the total for 2000 was 5. When I posted there were 10 in a 12 month period, I just meant to show that a string of deaths in a 12 month period (whether or not it falls neatly into a calendar year) is just as big a "risk factor" as a string that falls nicely into a calendar year. I believe it is certain that there were 5 in 1999, that is what gave rise to the first safety committee and is widely cited. Then early in 2000, it continued and there were another 5 around the world, still falling within 12 months' time from the first one in 1999. Does that make sense?



  8. #8
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    Default

    I am sorry that you feel it's morbid. And I'm asking all the same, because this has gone on long enough, and no one is doing anything about it.



  9. #9
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    Default

    I think that in light of recent events this is ENTIRELY appropriate, and necessary.

    I'd be interested to see data about horse deaths, and catastrophic falls that permanently disabled the rider or horse, and if there's any correlation between those accidents and the courses they were on.



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellie K View Post
    TB, I believe the total for 2000 was 5. When I posted there were 10 in a 12 month period, I just meant to show that a string of deaths in a 12 month period (whether or not it falls neatly into a calendar year) is just as big a "risk factor" as a string that falls nicely into a calendar year. I believe it is certain that there were 5 in 1999, that is what gave rise to the first safety committee and is widely cited. Then early in 2000, it continued and there were another 5 around the world, still falling within 12 months' time from the first one in 1999. Does that make sense?
    Yes, thank you. I've been researching for about 6 hours and coming up with hardly any information. The FEI safety reports, while thoroughly padded with miscellaneous content that addresses few concerns, seem to have holes in its data.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    I think that in light of recent events this is ENTIRELY appropriate, and necessary.

    I'd be interested to see data about horse deaths, and catastrophic falls that permanently disabled the rider or horse, and if there's any correlation between those accidents and the courses they were on.
    I am working toward this. It's very difficult to find such information, other than personal recollections. I will be polling COTHers about this later when the current issues have died down a bit.

    The FEI has fall statistics galore, but no info about the results of said falls.



  12. #12
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    Default

    I don't know where you are located physically & I don't know if The Horse of Delaware Valley has an archive of old issues, but I know they carried quite an article on deaths in eventing after either the 1993 or 94 death which was in this immediate area. That article remained on my bedside table for (literally) years & I read it over & over again. According to the article (which I no longer have) there had been only 10 deaths in recognized eventing worldwide in the 10 years prior (this is based on my memory but I am fairly sure I am correct) & almost all of the deaths had been at tables, which put that type of jump under scrutiny at that time. The young woman who died in either 93 or 94 died competing at training level. I know her obituary was carried by the Wilmington (DE) News Journal as it was a big deal in this area at that time. Again, you might be able to locate the obituary in archives if you were that interested - it was a big article with a picture of her jumping her horse.



  13. #13
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    Default

    Roberta Scocia (sp?) died in 1998, I believe. There was a lovely COTH editorial in Nov (I think) of that year.... It was a farewell to them all, and discussing the dangers involved in riding (comparing the different disciplines to swimming sports).



  14. #14
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    Default

    I would like to see USEA fund a graduate student or postdoc to work on this issue.

    What hypotheses would you like to see tested? We could look at causes of death, types of jumps, experience of the horses/riders, horse physiology and the physics of jumping. I think rather then us anecdoting away about it, someone needs to sit down and figure out the 'epidemiology' of these deaths. That will lead us to new concrete theories and give us directions for how to address and fix this problem.



  15. #15
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    Default

    Don't just limit yourself to human deaths--catastrophic/critical injury is equally important.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  16. #16
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    Default

    In 1998, I rode at Trojan Horse (AZ) Adv, just 5 horses behind a gal named Bonnie? that died when her horse misjudged the bounce.

    I will never forget my routine to stay focused during that warm-up.
    The more we look for that perfect spot, the harder it is to find.



  17. #17
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    Default

    Regarding the horse statistics:
    In any statistical analysis, numbers can be skewed to form just about any point of view. It's important to understand that eventing requires many more jumps of a horse in the course of competing. If you ride a Grand Prix jumper, your course of jumps is what, 15 to 20 efforts? And if you drop a rail you do not come back, your day is done. The very fact that event horses have nearly twice as many jumping efforts on cross country day alone skews the percentages. Event horses are jumping nearly four times as many fences in a competition weekend at the upper levels than comparative non-eventing competition horses, probably on average.

    (Edited to add: do not forget if you are thinking that cross country requires jumping efforts over solid fences -- remember that the majority of horses who start the courses in an average event finish, which means most horses in competition jump the solid fences cleanly, which is a very heavily weighted percentage.)

    Even if the grand prix jumper has more chances to show over the course of a season, or a year, the event horse also schools jumping and cross country in addition to competing. How do you factor in fatalities vs. jumping exposure? You can't. It's impractical, not without a year of research on each and every horse. Could be done, however, not saying it can't. The point is you cannot tie horse deaths at eventing to any particular reason with regard to the competition exposure, since many things factor in to exposing the horse to risk factors while on course, or while competing. For instance, the horses at Red Hills appeared to have heart problems, both of them, which compromised them in the end. The course therefore did not cause the fatalities, sorry, but those are the medical facts, despite all the rhetoric and opinion. The horse's body did. And there is no way on God's green earth veterinary science can tell anyone (yet) beyond a reasonable doubt, that the course, or a jump, or some combination of the above (including or excluding rider error) caused their demise. The science is just not there yet. Congenital defect, undetected, picked a rather public moment to surface? Underlying infection, compromising the heart? Physical condition or lack thereof? Or no reason? sometimes things just happen. You can't blame that on a course.

    How many horse deaths happen back in the barns at the huge hunter shows, or at the dressage shows? Pony club rallies? Death by colic induced by stress at shows, events, rallies? The numbers can string on and on and become an endless recitation of exceptions, qualifications, special circumstances. Did the competition cause the death or contribute to it?

    If one is concerned about horse deaths, by far and away, steeplechasing holds the crown on that. Next would be organized racing. I kept statistics back in 2000-2001 for a website I was hosting, and worldwide I found over 100 horse deaths, the vast majority in England in steeplechasing, over 60 percent. The rest were mostly racing Thoroughbred first, Quarter Horse second, Harness third. (slower). There were a very tiny few reported in Quarter Horse Shows, Arab shows, Saddlebred and TW shows, reining, hunters and jumpers, etc. Surprising a lot of horses died in rodeos, a very dangerous place for a horse actually. Lots of broken necks, tangled in ropes. Oh and the new Extreme horse sport deal - whew, bad on horses too. They've had several horse deaths at those. And then eventing, dressage, youth shows (including Pony Club, 4-H, etc.) and other stuff like clinics and non competition events. An interesting statistic, the Quarter horse World show and Congress each have a horse death usually every other day of competition, it's not reported for the most part, but I know from attending both, and talking to the driver of "the truck". Congress is 10 days long. You do the math. And there's no outrage and big long epistles posted on this board about THAT tragedy of a horse sport. No one calling for the demise of showing quarter horses, outlawing rodeos, etc.

    Worldwide eventing is on par with other horse sports listed above, all reported about the same number of horses per sport per year. Some a few more, some a few less. You just can't make the case based on statistics that eventing is any more dangerous to horses than any other horse sport with the exception of steeplechasing or racing. I just feel it's important to point out statistical analysis needs to be exact, and that the difficulty of comparison on raw numbers alone usually will lead to an erroneous conclusion.
    Last edited by retreadeventer; Mar. 17, 2008 at 01:05 AM. Reason: Solid fences - edit
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  18. #18
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    Default

    I agree that statistical analyses can be skewed in many ways. However, your post implies that you feel that upper level eventing is as safe to horses as QH showing, loping around in a well groomed ring. Now who is skewing statistics? I am a happy for anyone who thinks everything is as it should be and that nobody should ask questions or try and improve the sport.

    However, having been to MANY events, and MANY shows over the years, and after seeing 3 horses die at events in less than 2 years, I made the decision to change my focus to SJ instead. It is important to question why horses and people are dying and being critically injured. I am sure it will happen someday, but thus far I have not seen a horse die at a HJ show or loping around a breed show class.

    These are questions that need to be asked if the sport is to be made safer for horses and riders. I applaud anyone who goes to the effort to try and gather information that may positively influence safety for our friends, both human and equine.
    Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

    http://www.halcyon-hill.com



  19. #19
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    Default Trojan Horse Trials 1998

    Quote Originally Posted by Outfox View Post
    In 1998, I rode at Trojan Horse (AZ) Adv, just 5 horses behind a gal named Bonnie? that died when her horse misjudged the bounce.

    I will never forget my routine to stay focused during that warm-up.
    Linda Riddle died when her horse midjudged the bounce. She was competing advanced.



  20. #20
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retreadeventer View Post
    Regarding the horse statistics:
    In any statistical analysis, numbers can be skewed to form just about any point of view. It's important to understand that eventing requires many more jumps of a horse in the course of competing. If you ride a Grand Prix jumper, your course of jumps is what, 15 to 20 efforts? And if you drop a rail you do not come back, your day is done. The very fact that event horses have nearly twice as many jumping efforts on cross country day alone skews the percentages. Event horses are jumping nearly four times as many fences in a competition weekend at the upper levels than comparative non-eventing competition horses, probably on average.
    This has nothing to do with comparing death/injury levels sport to sport, and everything to do with determining the reason that deaths and severe injuries have skyrocketed in eventing in the last few years. It's unacceptable.

    (Edited to add: do not forget if you are thinking that cross country requires jumping efforts over solid fences -- remember that the majority of horses who start the courses in an average event finish, which means most horses in competition jump the solid fences cleanly, which is a very heavily weighted percentage.)
    Not quite sure what your point is here, but yes the majority do finish clean. However, how many have been overfaced, and why is that majority diminishing? It's unacceptable that we do this to our horses.

    Even if the grand prix jumper has more chances to show over the course of a season, or a year, the event horse also schools jumping and cross country in addition to competing. How do you factor in fatalities vs. jumping exposure? You can't. It's impractical, not without a year of research on each and every horse. Could be done, however, not saying it can't. The point is you cannot tie horse deaths at eventing to any particular reason with regard to the competition exposure, since many things factor in to exposing the horse to risk factors while on course, or while competing. For instance, the horses at Red Hills appeared to have heart problems, both of them, which compromised them in the end. The course therefore did not cause the fatalities, sorry, but those are the medical facts, despite all the rhetoric and opinion. The horse's body did. And there is no way on God's green earth veterinary science can tell anyone (yet) beyond a reasonable doubt, that the course, or a jump, or some combination of the above (including or excluding rider error) caused their demise. The science is just not there yet. Congenital defect, undetected, picked a rather public moment to surface? Underlying infection, compromising the heart? Physical condition or lack thereof? Or no reason? sometimes things just happen. You can't blame that on a course.
    Isn't it worth TRYING to find out if the course had an effect? There have been horses with heart defects who have competed successfully for years at the upper levels. Why is it such a bad thing to see if the "new" format courses of compressed, technicla and taxing jumping efforts sandwiched between varying lenghts of galloping is is MORE detrimental to the horse than the classic long format? These incresed deaths, injuries, (horse and human) and close calls are unacceptable.

    How many horse deaths happen back in the barns at the huge hunter shows, or at the dressage shows? Pony club rallies? Death by colic induced by stress at shows, events, rallies? The numbers can string on and on and become an endless recitation of exceptions, qualifications, special circumstances. Did the competition cause the death or contribute to it?
    The topic isn't curing ALL of horseshowing's ills and evils in one fell swoop, it's about fixing something that has gone drastically wrong in one area of showing. It's like saying why improve vehicle safety for NASCR drivers because people drive like idiots on the freeways and die all the time.

    If one is concerned about horse deaths, by far and away, steeplechasing holds the crown on that. Next would be organized racing. I kept statistics back in 2000-2001 for a website I was hosting, and worldwide I found over 100 horse deaths, the vast majority in England in steeplechasing, over 60 percent. The rest were mostly racing Thoroughbred first, Quarter Horse second, Harness third. (slower). There were a very tiny few reported in Quarter Horse Shows, Arab shows, Saddlebred and TW shows, reining, hunters and jumpers, etc. Surprising a lot of horses died in rodeos, a very dangerous place for a horse actually. Lots of broken necks, tangled in ropes. Oh and the new Extreme horse sport deal - whew, bad on horses too. They've had several horse deaths at those. And then eventing, dressage, youth shows (including Pony Club, 4-H, etc.) and other stuff like clinics and non competition events. An interesting statistic, the Quarter horse World show and Congress each have a horse death usually every other day of competition, it's not reported for the most part, but I know from attending both, and talking to the driver of "the truck". Congress is 10 days long. You do the math. And there's no outrage and big long epistles posted on this board about THAT tragedy of a horse sport. No one calling for the demise of showing quarter horses, outlawing rodeos, etc.
    Yes people are concerned about it, but this is the EVENTING board, and we are worried for the life of our sport, and the lives of those that participate. The rate of death and injury in the last years IS UNACCEPTABLE.

    Worldwide eventing is on par with other horse sports listed above, all reported about the same number of horses per sport per year. Some a few more, some a few less.
    On par how? Based on what data?

    You just can't make the case based on statistics that eventing is any more dangerous to horses than any other horse sport with the exception of steeplechasing or racing. I just feel it's important to point out statistical analysis needs to be exact, and that the difficulty of comparison on raw numbers alone usually will lead to an erroneous conclusion.
    So because it's going to be tricky and difficult we shouldn't try? Again, we are not looking at other horse sports, there are plenty of people actively involved in those thingsd who are fighting the same battle. We need to look at ours. YES horse sports are dangerous, yes accidents happen, yes we do this voluntarily. But our horses don't, and we owe it to them to keep it safe and fun and still provide a challenge. I do NOT understand why you think that the increasing carnage on our courses is something that can be shrugged off as part of the sport. Should we stop educating US citizens about the transmission of diseases because in other countries people die of malaria and typhoid still?

    Where do you draw the line for eventing? What would make you say "OK, this is bad, NOW we need to do something?"



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