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  1. #1

    Default Drugs and the BNT

    Once again, because I have little else to occupy my mind, I was wondering where the BNT's get all of the illegal drugs. What sort of pharmaceutical company manufactures drugs which are illegal? Do vets willingly prescribe them? If drugs at the shows are such a problem, why does every tent have a "used sharps" box in plain view? Are there other disciplines where these drugs are approved for competition? Are the drugs being smuggled in from other countries? Are the clients billed for the illegal drugs?
    POYBGP, member in good standing.



  2. #2
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    In most cases, the drugs are perfectly LEGAL to USE on a horse that is not showing. It is only against the rules to SHOW while using them.

    There are also things which it IS legal to inject during the show- hence the "sharps" boxes.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  3. #3

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    Sorry Janet, I really did mean the drugs that are illegal to use at a show.
    POYBGP, member in good standing.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens View Post
    Sorry Janet, I really did mean the drugs that are illegal to use at a show.
    Then i do not understand your quesion.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  5. #5
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    I totally thought this was going to be a thread on BNT and the illegal drugs they use themselves! The BNT that I know typically get their drugs from vets and I can think of several vets offhand that are known for getting you what you need. Of course no naming names.
    Suerte Hostage Crisis Survivor!



  6. #6
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    For example: ace is illegal to show with, but it's a perfectly legal pharmaceutical manufactured by an ordinary drug company.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  7. #7
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    Illegal sharps go in the same box as legal sharps, I'd imagine, and there are plenty of legal, injectable drugs around.

    As for the rest of your questions, I can't help you. My boss plays by the rules, so I don't know



  8. #8

    Default

    Ok, so it is safe to say that for the most part, vets are supplying the trainers or owners with these "illegal for showing" drugs. I would imagine that in some cases, a vet would be aware of the fact that a trainer was ordering up more ace than he/she needed to clip horses' ears for a month.
    POYBGP, member in good standing.



  9. #9
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    My farms vet gives us a large prescription of things like Bute. This is because it saves us money and the vet time. We dont have to call the vet out at every instance to get some. The vet knows that there are people who know when to give it. I would assume its like that at most barns.
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  10. #10
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    Some vets are more forthcoming than others.

    Some are drugs that are legal, but not for showing. Others are off-label uses of drugs that are used for something else or more commonly for another species.

    But what really piques the Evil Chem Prof's curiosity is the possibility of a designer drug market. Are their modifications of other drugs that work better or different? Would it be possible to come up with something "natural" that might work, say endrophins? It's wouldn't be that hard to hire a less-than-ethical chemist to make something, or even design something, especially if enough money is offered. In a world where people are whipping up illicit drugs in trailer parks and apartment buildings it's not a huge step to imagine them making drugs for horses.



  11. #11
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    Well yes vets are the ones ordering/prescribing the meds since really almost all of the meds are/can be used on a day to day basis like others have said. Most stables i know have a fairly large med cabinet just due to "stockpilling" it over the year. Horses needing a bit of that biut then not finishing the entire bottle or that type of thing. Most vets i have come across are pretty good about " oh you need some (fill in blank) here you go".

    P.



  12. #12
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    Gee whiz! So did I--imagine my disappointment!

    Seriously, I'm not quite sure what the prob is--maybe there's some confusion over drug use in the ring whatsoever????

    Cuz there are perfectly legal show drugs and a slew of illegal ones, as more exp COTHers have written above...




    Quote Originally Posted by onwego View Post
    I totally thought this was going to be a thread on BNT and the illegal drugs they use themselves! The BNT that I know typically get their drugs from vets and I can think of several vets offhand that are known for getting you what you need. Of course no naming names.



  13. #13
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    Many vets will give their clients a veritable buffet of drugs if they are an A-level client because they have a tendency to run horses a bit harder than others and they can certainly afford as much as their cash flow allows. Some will give you whatever you want when you ask for it as long as you pay in cash. Whether or not those drugs end up in the horse and not the riders is anyone's guess but it's not uncommon to find riders abusing the medication. I've found parents running around with multiple bottles of Ketamine at the local 4H shows. There are juniors who will run around the barns trying to inject or snort anything they can their hands on because they think it's rebelling against mommy and daddy. There are drug forums where junior riders exchange information on what works and how to do it properly.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens View Post
    Ok, so it is safe to say that for the most part, vets are supplying the trainers or owners with these "illegal for showing" drugs. I would imagine that in some cases, a vet would be aware of the fact that a trainer was ordering up more ace than he/she needed to clip horses' ears for a month.
    Most people who manage large strings of horses do not buy "per dosage" amounts. Said trainer/owner is not buying 2 cc's of ace (xylazine, rompum, whatever) at a time, they are buying the whole bottle. Hell, I only have 2 horses and even I buy ace by the bottle (then toss 3/4 of it out after it expires and is mostly not used - that is still cheaper than buying it by the dose). But having ace handy when I have a horse laid up and ready for turnout, or for whatever other appropriate usage, makes a lot more sense than me putting in a 35 mile round trip to get to my vet's office and pick it up, or paying an call charge to have her drop it off.

    So once you are buying a drug in a multi-dose bottle, that probably will not expire for a year, how is the vet supposed to track what is "normal" usage? And yes, some people use more than one vet depending on where they are in the country, so even if you could (with a straight face) posit that a vet should be able to keep track of such things, what if the trainer/owner has 2 vets? How are both supposed to keep track of such things?

    For any one of these scenarios, you can substitute reserpine, fluphen or any of the more recent stars in the USEF Hit Parade. They all have legitimate, acceptable use outside of showing and are valid treatment options. In addition, many vets advise their clients on how and when to administer said drugs for said treatment and leave it with the horse's owner/farm manager/etc. It's when you make the decision to use that drug in an illegal manner (showing while trace elements are still present) that a problem arises. But how the vet can and should police that, I can't fathom.

    Now one hears about cocktails of substances that avoids detection, but that is another level of dishonesty altogether. But hey, the test catches up eventually.
    I'm sorry... Did I just roll my eyes out loud?



  15. #15
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    Ok, my answer was going to be "They grow it in the unused back pastures" but I don't think that was the question about drugs that you meant!



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens View Post
    Ok, so it is safe to say that for the most part, vets are supplying the trainers or owners with these "illegal for showing" drugs. I would imagine that in some cases, a vet would be aware of the fact that a trainer was ordering up more ace than he/she needed to clip horses' ears for a month.
    Harry, I think you are on the wrong grassy knoll on this one.



  17. #17
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    The sharp box may be intended for things like, Adequan or Legend shots. I am assuming it is legal to give these at shows...?



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Many vets will give their clients a veritable buffet of drugs if they are an A-level client because they have a tendency to run horses a bit harder than others and they can certainly afford as much as their cash flow allows. Some will give you whatever you want when you ask for it as long as you pay in cash. Whether or not those drugs end up in the horse and not the riders is anyone's guess but it's not uncommon to find riders abusing the medication. I've found parents running around with multiple bottles of Ketamine at the local 4H shows. There are juniors who will run around the barns trying to inject or snort anything they can their hands on because they think it's rebelling against mommy and daddy. There are drug forums where junior riders exchange information on what works and how to do it properly.
    Just out of curiosity... are you referring to juniors snorting and injecting the HORSES’ drugs?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by diKecnadnuS View Post
    Just out of curiosity... are you referring to juniors snorting and injecting the HORSES’ drugs?
    I am in high school... ketamine is very commonly used as a "recreational drug". Talk about STUPID!!!!!!!!!



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by diKecnadnuS View Post
    Just out of curiosity... are you referring to juniors snorting and injecting the HORSES’ drugs?

    Affirmative.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!



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