[STF]

In your opinion...... who is the most impressive Trakehner stallion in North America that passes on the best dressage traits.

[acottongim]

Oskar (but he doesn't have enough older offspring to verify the "passing on traits", but from what I have seen he puts his amazing movement and his ablity to "sit" on just about everything.

Also like Kovington he really passes on a nice hind end that reaches under themselves and good freedom through the shoulder.

Hailo - can't go wrong with him, he is consistently in the top of the USDF breeding and dressage lists.

Ditto Leonidas.

Those are the ones that I've seen (or have seen their offspring) and I personally like (leaving out the TK from Europe, since you said "in NA").

[Oakstable]

I copied this off the ATA web site:

Leading Dressage Sires: (77 out of top 1000 stallions were Trakehners)
3rd - Hailo *Pg*E*
12th - Enrico Caruso *Ps*E*
13th - Martini *Pg*E*
24th - Leonidas *Pg*
25th - Bütow *E*
50th - E.H. Gribaldi (stands in Holland)

[Dressage-ryder]

I love Leonidas offspring... I have seen some of his babies in person at shows and they are quite fancy!

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Martini would be my top pick, I think, if we are just talking about AMERICAN Trakehners. Hailo has some impressive stats, I also like Leo and of course, my boy Oskar! Can't forget Enrico Caruso, he was such a wonderful boy.

[cheekyhorse]

I am rather biased.....I love the Enrico Caruso line myself. But I much agree with the other posters on the other stallions mentioned. Martini, Leo, Hailo. Depends on what area of the world we are talking about here though, as there are many lovely choices in Germany and Russia that I love as well. But if we are sticking with ATA....

[acottongim]

The ONLY reason I didn't include EC is because he is deceased... the way I read LaNet's post it sounded like she wanted active stallions... (Kovington is an EC son). If you are opening up to deceased/inactive stallions... there are several others as well.

[RP]

Also depends on the mare. Some of the stallions mentioned are older style horses - a little heavier. Others are more modern. Leo has some really nice offspring that are performing but it seems like he throws bigger - I may be wrong on that. Martini has a bunch of foals from different mares because his owner had the ability and resources to breed him to many many mares, many many times. Hailo is lovely and Oskar is lovely but both are different horses that would need different mares (IMHO). Even though EC is no longer here, he had not been breeding for quite awhile before he passed, but to still see him so high on the list is a testament to his quality as a sire. I don't think Debra had the numbers of mares that the Brinkmans have. But all great dressage producers!

[ponygirl]

There is a stallion named Stiletto (Martini son) that events. He's LOVELY! Dressage scores in the low 20s and deservedly so. http://www.valhallatrakehner.com/stall.htm

[cheekyhorse]

LaNet, are you looking strictly for fresh cooled, or are you open to frozen? As that opens the gates quite a bit. I'm going to throw Hadrian out there as well.......he is an elite ATA stallion, and his foals are VERY nice.

[Shawnda N]

I do not remember Hadrian ever being awarded the Elite Title ?
The list of Elite Stallions in the ATA still standing at stud (some deseased by frozen) are : Abdullah, Donaufurst, Hailo, Martini, Pregelstrand, Schonfeld, and also E.H. Herrzauber who is the only Elite German stallion standing in North America.

[cheekyhorse]

Yep, sorry Shawnda you are right. He was given that for AWS........my mistake.

[RP]

I don't know - I wouldn't call Hadrian a dressage producer. I think more of hunters when I hear his name. Still like the original list offered. Oskar is pretty consistent in what he passes on. Hailo is also consistent. If you can get EC, that would be a sure bet - didn't someone have an EC foal in Germany recently?

[acottongim]

Are you thinking of Lord Luciano?? (I think that is his name?) Tylord Farm sent him to Germany for approvals when he was a youngster...
I have heard a rumor that there is EC frozen in Europe, but that is rumor, i have no idea if it is true or not.

[Ashemont]

I was very impressed with Schiffon. Wow! If I were breeding a Trakehner mare he'd be at the top of my list

[RP]

acottongim - I don't think it was the horse you are talking about. Wasn't there some excitement over a foal being born in Germany, using old EC frozen semen? I might be wrong but I was hoping there was some viable EC frozen somewhere and that is why I was curious. I bet they wouldn't let any of it go if they did have some.

[STF]

I was very impressed with Schiffon. Wow! If I were breeding a Trakehner mare he'd be at the top of my list

I totally forgot about him.
Have you seen him Pat? How are his gaits under saddle?

[Kumi]

STF - are you breeding a specific mare this year? What are her bloodlines? What does she need and what does she not need?

It always helps to be specific in what you are looking for. I don't believe that all stallions cross well with all mares - you're looking for the best possibe match, I'm sure. It becomes a waste of time to throw out all the possible names of dressage stallions without having more information.

[Equine Connection]

Very valid and important points, Kumi. Realistic breedings goals and objectives are very important, as well as the individual mare's attributes, weaknesses, etc, and the attributes one seeks in a stallion to hopefully create the right match. No stallion can "fix" everything and vice versa. Knowing a bit more about a mare, her history and the ultimates breeding goal are very important in developing a shorter list of potential stallion candidates. "Dressage traits" is somewhat of a relative term and hence can be interpreted very differently.

[STF]

STF - are you breeding a specific mare this year? What are her bloodlines? What does she need and what does she not need?

It always helps to be specific in what you are looking for. I don't believe that all stallions cross well with all mares - you're looking for the best possibe match, I'm sure. It becomes a waste of time to throw out all the possible names of dressage stallions without having more information.

Kumi, check your PTs!