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  1. #1
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    Smile Please help chose a stallion

    I really hope that those of you more knowledgeble than I can help me chose a stallion.

    I have recently acquired a dressage-type mare. To make a long story short she was my teenage dream horse and recently became available for sale, so it was purely a sentimental purchase. She is 15 and a maiden (tough I know). She is not too tall, quite broad with a very upright neck and powerful hindquarters. She is an good mover, with an very nice walk and trot and an ok canter.
    She has basically been in a field doing the odd ride for the last 8 years or so.
    Her pedigree is here:
    http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/frontefaline
    There is also a video of her on youtube under her name. (Keep in mind that that was likely her tenth ride in as many months, and she is a little plump That is her sales video.

    Anyhow, I know NOTHING about dressage lines or desirability of certain ones since I have always been more into jumpers. I would like to have the option to sell the foal, so a 'popular' bloodline wouldn't hurt.

    I think since it is her first foal at her age, I should stick with chilled rather than frozen. I think there are a lot of nice stallions locally but I am not opposed to going further afield. West coast/central would be nice for shipping semen but it's not that vital.

    There are several local stallions that I like on their own merit but I really don't know if they would be suitable for her....
    There is:
    Whirlwind (Haarlem x Goodtimes)
    Grosso Gold (Grosso Z x Julio Mariner)
    Ikoon (Libero H x Nimmerdor)
    Pandoer (Krack C x Saluut)
    There is also a new Sandro Hit x Donnerhall around but I think he is only 3.
    There are many more on the Canadian Warmblood website.

    Thanks so much for any advice.
    Last edited by winter; Feb. 7, 2008 at 03:26 PM. Reason: More relevant subject line



  2. #2
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    Default

    if you know so little about breeding and dressage lines, why not go to a known dressage breeder and buy a foal? it's a far easier, cheaper and more reliable way to get a dressage horse, all the way around.

    edited to ask: if you are thinking you want to just breed a foal to sell then i have to ask - why are you even breeding this mare??



  3. #3
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    Dec. 11, 2007
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    Montreal, Canada
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    I can't see the video at work, so can't tell if these stallions would fit your mare, but here are Canadian stallions that produced premium foals in 2007:

    Sir Wanabi (the judge was very impressed by his foals): http://www.laprisestable.com/stallion.html

    Aliano (produced 100% premiums in 2007, 20 foals are expected this year): http://www.fermemelanieboucher.ca

    Royal T (he also have Furiso xx on the dam line, so I would not pick him to prevent inbreeding, but he produced very nice and elegant colt): http://www.royalsenna.nstemp.com/custom_1.html

    And if the Sandro Hit X Donnerhall that you are talking about is the same as the one i think about, he will be available this year for breeding. Here is a link to a video of him (#38):
    http://www.oldenburger-pferde.com/horses/index_1791.php
    Last edited by Royal Monaco; Feb. 7, 2008 at 11:38 AM.



  4. #4
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    I will second the question of "why are you doing this?"



  5. #5
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    I should think with that pedigree, she could be bred to a jumper as well as a dressage stallion. Fruehling is a jumping line and Furioso has produced both. I don't think it matters "why" she wants to breed this mare as that is not what she is asking. If she feels the urge to breed her, it's more important to try to help match her up.

    It would probably be a good idea to try and match her with a stallion that is going to help her where she is "weak" and has been proven to be consistent in that area. If she needs help with her canter, try a Holsteiner. I've had good luck with the "C" line on the canter (Coromino and Corlando) and both are dual purpose in my opinion with movement and jump and are available fresh cooled. You could also look at Pilot stallions such as Pablo, those bloodlines have matched on jumpers in the past and he's a very good mover. Or maybe one of the Voltaire stallions in Canada, he has produced both as well. There are also some nice ones recently tested/approved that seem to have movement and jump and a video of the testing is available. Your mare has some "older", proven bloodlines that would be nice to preserve and have up close. Good luck!
    PennyG



  6. #6
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    All I wanted were some opinions on what are popular and preponent dressage stallions right now.

    I wasn't expecting to have the opportunity to acquire this very nice mare, but I have and I think the responsible thing is to cater to her strengths rather than my personal preferences, regardless of whether or not I plan on keeping the foal (which I might). Her strengths are her movement and pedigree. Of course I don't have to breed her, but I want to, I can afford it and I look after my horses. I don't see a problem with this. We all know that an athlete is an athlete but I think we can all agree that certain stallions have certain strengths and that is what I am looking for, a stallion that moves exceptionally well with a fantastic canter.
    I could breed this mare to a jumper stallion which is what I am more familiar with and what I researched a lot before I bred my other foal last year, but I don't think that would compliment her as well.

    Thank you Monaco for your suggestion of Sir Wanabi, I've watched him for a few years and thought he was quite nice.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKR View Post
    I should think with that pedigree, she could be bred to a jumper as well as a dressage stallion. Fruehling is a jumping line and Furioso has produced both. I don't think it matters "why" she wants to breed this mare as that is not what she is asking. If she feels the urge to breed her, it's more important to try to help match her up.

    It would probably be a good idea to try and match her with a stallion that is going to help her where she is "weak" and has been proven to be consistent in that area. If she needs help with her canter, try a Holsteiner. I've had good luck with the "C" line on the canter (Coromino and Corlando) and both are dual purpose in my opinion with movement and jump and are available fresh cooled. You could also look at Pilot stallions such as Pablo, those bloodlines have matched on jumpers in the past and he's a very good mover. Or maybe one of the Voltaire stallions in Canada, he has produced both as well. There are also some nice ones recently tested/approved that seem to have movement and jump and a video of the testing is available. Your mare has some "older", proven bloodlines that would be nice to preserve and have up close. Good luck!
    PennyG
    Thank you very much Penny for the great advice. Of course I love the C line Holsteiner's as hunters and jumpers, I just wasn't sure how they would match with her pedigree, again, that's why I was asking!
    I like Viva Voltaire's offspring very much, they are nice movers on the video I've seen.
    Funny, I have a Pilot grand-daughter who is 9 months old. She is by Portland L (Pilot x Ramiro) out of my TB mare.
    Oh, and just to mention, this mares sire has sired a lot of very good dressage horses, including one who was exported to Germany. His Dam was a state premium mare and awarded Elite mare status from Canadian warmblood, in addition to Frontenac, she produced MJ Fusion, a ferro son who was also licenced and approved as a stallion.
    Frontefaline's half sister Farnia W (Goya de Lully x Falstaff) was the champion mare at the Alberta North Canadian Warmblood show.
    So, those are some reasons, in addition to her own merits 'why' I am considering breeding her.



  8. #8
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    How is Briar being regarded as a sire of dressage horses or are none of them old enough to be doing anything yet?



  9. #9
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    Sheesh, the OP said she acquired her dream horse.

    She didn't ask if she should acquire. It's a done deal.

    Give her some constructive ideas or sit tight for some other thread.

    Ikoon is on her list. I have a mare in foal to Ikoon so I will give feedback later. The mare is a 10 mover. But she is jumper bred so it'll be interesting to see what I get in May. I did not pick him for a dressage foal. But I expect this foal will MOVE if he/she is anything like the mother. And should jump. Natasha jumped out of her corral over a 4'6" panel when she was 12 months old.... from almost a standstill. (She didn't want to be brushed by a stranger.)



  10. #10
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    Breed to a stallion who has a stellar, long-term performance record at FEI levels. Avoid the stallion du jour, 100DT test results or not, which is not proven in the show ring at upper levels. That will increase your odds of getting a good dressage performer.



  11. #11
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    Sounds like a wonderful mare. How about Tasker's Waldaire? He has a wonderful canter and a great show record through grand prix dressage. She posts here.
    Anne
    -------
    "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist



  12. #12
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    Fabuleux is well known for improving canter, and has produced quite a few inspection site winners, and they seem to be advertised for serious money when they are up for sale.



  13. #13
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    OP looks to be searching through the Canadian auction. I'd take a look at Tramino. Nice pedigree and proven performance.

    Sagnol and Freestyle are also in the Canadian auction.



  14. #14
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    Thank you very much for some constructive comments!

    Let me rephrase, I don't necessarily _want_ a dressage prospect, I just thought that's what would be best to try with this mare. Like I said, I want to pick what's best for her, but I only usually look at 'jumper' sires.

    So I guess I should rephrase my question to the simple which stallions do you think would best compliment her?

    As an aside, I noticed a local stallion called Calidostar recently did not bad at his approval and on a short video I saw looks like not a bad mover.

    Oakstable, have you seen Ikoon in person?

    Edited to add: It doesn't have to be through the Canadian auction, but just thought I should take a good look at our local stallions. Would certainly be open to any US stallions as well.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakstable View Post
    Sheesh, the OP said she acquired her dream horse.

    She didn't ask if she should acquire. It's a done deal.

    Give her some constructive ideas or sit tight for some other thread.
    and no one said she shouldn't acquire her.

    did any of you actually watch the video of this little 15.2 hand 16-year old mare?

    i said i didn't think she should breed her.



  16. #16
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    All breeders start somewhere...
    Perhaps it would be helpful for you to state your goals and priorities.
    Do you want a foal for yourself? Do you want to jump or do dressage?
    I think you are saying that you want what will complement the mare best, but that could be either jumper or dressage lines, based on the mare's bloodlines.

    Are you thinking that you would like keep and start young horse, see if it can jump, if not have "dressage prospect" as fall back position? (Hence interest in "popular" lines?)

    I would say decide on your end goal first and then work backwards.

    editd to add: no, I did not watch the video, (restricted access). What does it reveal? Size alone should not be a deterrent and confo can be tricky on a video.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



  17. #17
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    I guess I'll just have to live with my dumpy little foal. I'm ok with that. It can keep my monster foal from last year company.



  18. #18
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    Okay...so goal is to produce a dressage horse for yourself? That would also be widely saleable?
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



  19. #19
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    Mozart, (thanks for your interest, love your signature line by the way)
    I think it's more like you stated in your first post, I would like whichever compliments the mare best, but really I just want a nice foal of any discipline. I am trying to be open minded because I know all of the mare's close relatives have done well in dressage so I thought I should focus on that. I will chute jump her for fun when I get her home but she has never jumped so I don't know anything about what her style/scope might be.
    I will decide whether to keep the foal as it grows up I guess. I already have a 'jumper' prospect that is a coming yearling who I thought I would keep but really I will have to see how they turn out. I only mentioned saleable since if it did show some dressage talent I don't really have any interest in showing dressage so it might be nice for it to go to someone who did.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by winter View Post
    Mozart, (thanks for your interest, love your signature line by the way)
    I think it's more like you stated in your first post, I would like whichever compliments the mare best, but really I just want a nice foal of any discipline. I am trying to be open minded because I know all of the mare's close relatives have done well in dressage so I thought I should focus on that. I will chute jump her for fun when I get her home but she has never jumped so I don't know anything about what her style/scope might be.
    I will decide whether to keep the foal as it grows up I guess. I already have a 'jumper' prospect that is a coming yearling who I thought I would keep but really I will have to see how they turn out. I only mentioned saleable since if it did show some dressage talent I don't really have any interest in showing dressage so it might be nice for it to go to someone who did.
    Hey, nothing wrong with saleable as a corollary goal....
    Based on what you say I might look at a stallion who has had offspring in both rings, dressage and jumping and who can strengthen areas where the mare might be weak.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



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