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  1. #1
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    Default Horse Show/ Breed Show/ No Show

    As I was postioned near the ingate today at a show in Glen Rose Texas, I thought it might be fun as a test to ask breeding information on horses that I found interesting as they were gathering at the ingate. First colt, a gelding that really caught my eye, the rider did know his sire, he was a 5 year old gelding by Sandro Boy. Very nice type, not truly a hunter type but very eye catching and in need of filling out, still looking somewhat adolescent but very attractive, not the best jumper in the ring by any means, really didn't care too much where his feet were at any given time, but still quite a nice breed type and a good mover although I don't think he took a piece of the hack either. Second horse that caught my eye was by what is the stallions name, heard him mentioned here a lot. Bala Czar or something similar. This was a homeraised colt, nice rider aboard, out of a thoroughbred mare. Lovely type, quite inquisitive and spooky, beautiful jumping technique. An impressive horse for the future. The owners of this lovely gelding have two stallons of their own, SHINE is one of them.

    Anyway, others who caught my eye were a grey Hanoverian mare, lovely mare type, super jumping style, but they had no idea of the actual sire's name or other info. I thought she hacked well but placed last. I guess my eye is not the best perhaps, or the judge has a very different opinion on horses than I do. Also to consider, if you are not watching that horse all of the time, the end results may vary as it is performance based. In movement she was in the action in my eyes. However, not that day.

    Bottom line is, do you spend anytime looking and asking about the horses that you like most when you are roaming the showgrounds? What breeding have you run across that wowed you most? Seeing standing, and later seeing perform? Sometimes the most eyepopping entries are not the best in the ring, and viceversa.



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hocus Focus View Post
    As I was postioned near the ingate today at a show in Glen Rose Texas, I thought it might be fun as a test to ask breeding information on horses that I found interesting as they were gathering at the ingate. First colt, a gelding that really caught my eye, the rider did know his sire, he was a 5 year old gelding by Sandro Boy. Very nice type, not truly a hunter type but very eye catching and in need of filling out, still looking somewhat adolescent but very attractive, not the best jumper in the ring by any means, really didn't care too much where his feet were at any given time, but still quite a nice breed type and a good mover although I don't think he took a piece of the hack either. Second horse that caught my eye was by what is the stallions name, heard him mentioned here a lot. Bala Czar or something similar. This was a homeraised colt, nice rider aboard, out of a thoroughbred mare. Lovely type, quite inquisitive and spooky, beautiful jumping technique. An impressive horse for the future. The owners of this lovely gelding have two stallons of their own, SHINE is one of them.

    Anyway, others who caught my eye were a grey Hanoverian mare, lovely mare type, super jumping style, but they had no idea of the actual sire's name or other info. I thought she hacked well but placed last. I guess my eye is not the best perhaps, or the judge has a very different opinion on horses than I do. Also to consider, if you are not watching that horse all of the time, the end results may vary as it is performance based. In movement she was in the action in my eyes. However, not that day.

    Bottom line is, do you spend anytime looking and asking about the horses that you like most when you are roaming the showgrounds? What breeding have you run across that wowed you most? Seeing standing, and later seeing perform? Sometimes the most eyepopping entries are not the best in the ring, and viceversa.
    *raises hand* I am the worst at this.

    Local pony show last year I was tracking down owners and handlers of ponies that caught my eye. Some knew the breeding, some looked at me like 'what the heck?!'

    Here at school too I'm guilty - I ask the boarders or I USEF and allbreed horse names.

    Instructor shook her head at me and laughed when I arrived at the barn with my favorite horse to ride's pedigree in hand
    *The Quietman ~ Irish Approved Gr.1 Stallion
    www.windyislesfarms.com
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  3. #3
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hocus Focus View Post
    Bottom line is, do you spend anytime looking and asking about the horses that you like most when you are roaming the showgrounds? What breeding have you run across that wowed you most? Seeing standing, and later seeing perform? Sometimes the most eyepopping entries are not the best in the ring, and viceversa.
    I drive people crazy with the question, "What are the bloodlines on your horse?" Which is 99% of the time followed up by, "What are the mother's lines?" Because 99% of the time all they will know is the sire. It can be very interesting and a great way to train one's eye, especially if I have "guessed" something similar to what they turn out to be.



  4. #4
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    Hunter and Jumper ppl are the worst at now caring about what they ride as long as it jumps. Most are not breeders and could care less and feel lucky to find a horse that can get the job somewhat done.
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    Hunter and Jumper ppl are the worst at now caring about what they ride as long as it jumps. Most are not breeders and could care less and feel lucky to find a horse that can get the job somewhat done.
    My personal annoyance:

    Owner: My hot-shot warmblood is *imported*

    Me: Oh cool what bloodlines/where from etc.

    Owner: It's German...
    *The Quietman ~ Irish Approved Gr.1 Stallion
    www.windyislesfarms.com
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  6. #6
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    Hunter and Jumper ppl are the worst at now caring about what they ride as long as it jumps.
    Hopefully the light will come on one day and they will realize that jumping ability is heritable. If they knew the bloodlines of the winners, they could get 'copies' instead of mucking about with a dozen OTTB's trying to find one that might work.



  7. #7
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    Sep. 19, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hocus Focus View Post
    Second horse that caught my eye was by what is the stallions name, heard him mentioned here a lot. Bala Czar or something similar.
    I am going to guess Balta' Czar (who is by Alla' Czar) for that one.
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassenach View Post
    My personal annoyance:

    Owner: My hot-shot warmblood is *imported*

    Me: Oh cool what bloodlines/where from etc.

    Owner: It's German...
    I always love those. Horse came with no papers & is not branded with anything, yet they know where it came from or better yet who it's by?? How? Magic? Personally I wouldn't believe anything somebody told me unless there was papers (with a matching description) or a brand (to at least say what breed it is) or tattoo to back it up.
    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"



  9. #9
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    Sep. 16, 2005
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    Talking

    Pedigrees fascinate me. I can spend hours looking at them.

    It must be genetic. My mother is a geneologist. I have a more detailed pedigree than most TBs!



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giddy-up View Post
    I always love those. Horse came with no papers & is not branded with anything, yet they know where it came from or better yet who it's by?? How? Magic? Personally I wouldn't believe anything somebody told me unless there was papers (with a matching description) or a brand (to at least say what breed it is) or tattoo to back it up.
    The people at my barn think I'm nuts because the first thing I ask if a like a horse is 'what are the bloodlines' must be a breeder thing (3rd generation someday hopefully )
    *The Quietman ~ Irish Approved Gr.1 Stallion
    www.windyislesfarms.com
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  11. #11
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    Glad to come home to find response to my thoughts. I am so beat at the end of the day that I was not even sure what I wrote. ha ha
    .
    Update...Second day, same horses returning, saw them all, I live there... some horses noticeably improved in their performance, a rider thing, it is such a pleasure to watch good riders showing the young horses the way and seeing them fit into the program... balancing... encouraging... supporting...

    There is a very sweet gelding by the name of Beethoven who I must find out more about, kind of a big surly cuddly type. Today he jumped well for his trainer and then a young rider rode him in a low hunter class and he was very forgiving, a great kind of guy and a definite ammy friendly type.

    The Sandro Boy put in a highly respectable and much improved trip today, getting those feet organized, with his usual dose of cuteness. He was in the Baby Greens so awkwardness is part of the division and nice to see him getting the feet and legs organized.

    The grey mare which shall we say I saw more as a diamond in the rough, of unknown breeding, showed consistent good jumping form, very photogenic in form and will make a very nice hunter I am sure. There was also a few others that caught my eye but I was not positioned near the ingate. I was stuck on the far end due to the way the course was set so I was not able to continue my "quiz/learning experience" today.

    However ring side I will be and tomorrow they reverse the course so I will be back near ingate and I will try to keep notes on my investigation tomorrow. Yes the gelding was a Balta' Czar, great looking horse, large, and very typey. He was quite spooky again today but it was torrential rain outside, and I am on Ring two, the young horse ring. Very noisey and lots of thumping on the roof.

    This is an entirely indoor show by the way, a great brush up on my indoor shooting technique which I must say was a bit rusty. We are finished day three of a two week event. Tomorrow I will report more on the "who's who" in the breeding ranks.

    In response to some of the comments made, I think the riders and trainers are savvy in their understanding of their needs for the most part so I would not entirely trash them for what they don't offer. They have plenty on their plate. Ideally arriving at a point where breeders and trainers understand the needs each have for the other would be a step forward for all. They look for capability in the individual over paper for certain. Knowing their minds would be a very useful function for the breeder as well.

    Talent should always be appreciated regardless of breeding. If the best breeding reflects the expected talent, then you have arrived!

    My first group of horses finished their divisions for this week so tomorrow will bring a new group for certain and the others will rest and be back out next week. In the meantime, I have my homework cut out for me. Reports to follow.
    Last edited by Hocus Focus; Jan. 25, 2008 at 06:14 PM.



  12. #12
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    Oct. 23, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassenach View Post
    My personal annoyance:

    Owner: My hot-shot warmblood is *imported*

    Me: Oh cool what bloodlines/where from etc.

    Owner: It's German...
    THIS is the VERY FIRST EVER post i read & damn near fell off my chair laughing! this should be in a comic strip!! just to add, he has some sort of scar on his hip- guess he got hurt!



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse'sMom View Post
    THIS is the VERY FIRST EVER post i read & damn near fell off my chair laughing! this should be in a comic strip!! just to add, he has some sort of scar on his hip- guess he got hurt!
    Hmmm... now it sounds like you is all gettin bent outa shape over my little hobby I just picked up here... well you stand ten hours a day by ingate snappin day after day after day and you tell me if you can think of a better plan...... I am all ears for your next Hoo Haaa...



  14. #14
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    Apologies folks, I kinda flubbed out on this as I just got too busy running with the way courses were set and having to work around course design and limitation by light and background. Quite a challenge in outside covered pens. Not always at the ingate to be able to ask the questions and when I was, it was to grab a shot and then move quickly to where my next shot was. On the move a lot.

    Anyway, saw one other I wanted to get some info on and it was an Alcatraz gelding who I noted as particularly athletic who showed improvement in the lower divisions. Trainer ridden first two days and Jr rider after. A good jumper for the hunter requirments and quite a good mover as well. A chestnut.

    Off for two days and then we will do it all again. Maybe this week I can fill in more of these gaps. It is hard to be in all places at once and the days are long. They do take their toll on this older tired bod.



  15. #15
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    Aug. 26, 2003
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    If I go to watch, absolutely, but when I go to show I tend to be one of those insanely focused people. That said, EVERY outing I have had my colt to, I have been approached by people asking his breeding. So far one has guessed it right (actual breed, not bloodlines) and most ask me if he is Holsteiner. I'm amazed how much attention he draws, as I've never had any body ask about my horses before, even my show horses.

    My mare gets the "what breeding is she" too, and most think Trakehner or WB/TB. She is full TB so I'm excited to see what the WB folks think of her at the inspections.

    There is a downside to asking for breeding though, I had him at a local hunter breeding show and he was doing well, lined up top two. She went down the line and asked breeds, I said he's Irish Draught x TB and she scoffed about "drafts have no place in hunter breeding" and surprise, after sending the group around once more we ended up dead last.



  16. #16
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    Mar. 28, 2001
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    Some statistics from USEF's 2007 results:

    I picked a random date towards the end of the 2007 show season. Probably 95% of the shows for 2007 had been reported. These numbers change each time USEF posts a show.
    For the USEF Hunter divisions that jump 3'6" or higher there were 3591 horses thathad points. I eliminated the bottom third of each division as most of those horses only showed a few times. That left 2394 horses with points. There is some duplication as horses can and do show in multiple divisions. I selected approximately the top 22% of each division for data gathering. 529 horses remained.

    Breed/Registry Breakdown
    1 Dutch WB 20% Dutch, Dutch WB, KWPN grouped
    2 Warmblood 13% The majority of this group had no pedigree info
    3 Oldenburg 12%
    4 Hano 11%
    5 Holsteiner 9%
    6 Westphalian 8%
    7 Tb/WB Cross 4%
    8 TB 3%
    9 Belg WB 3%
    10 German WB 2%
    Other Breeds/Registries:
    Czech,Rhinelander,Brandenburg,Mecklenburg,Zanger,B avarian, Swiss,Selle
    Francais,Danish, Canadian,Hungarian, Trak, Bavarian, Wurtemburg,Sachsen,American Warmblood, Unknown ( 9 horses)

    There was almost no recording of registry to denote it was an american branch of a Euro registry. So almost impossible to tell how many were American Hano, American Holsteiner etc except by looking at breeder. There were very,very few listed as an American "x".

    Breeder Breakdown of the 529 horses in the sample
    USA 29 horses 10 were TB,10 TB/WB cross 4 Old,2 Hol,2 Dutch, 1 Hano
    Foreign 115 horses

    Indirect information indicates another 10 horses were US Bred (sire info) and another 20 horses were foreign bred ( published interviews,articles where the horse is referred to as imported). Indrect info was not included in the above numbers.

    Pedigree Information
    128 had no pedigree Info 24%
    Only 6 of the foreign bred horses were missing pedigree information.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giddy-up View Post
    I always love those. Horse came with no papers & is not branded with anything, yet they know where it came from or better yet who it's by?? How? Magic? Personally I wouldn't believe anything somebody told me unless there was papers (with a matching description) or a brand (to at least say what breed it is) or tattoo to back it up.
    I laughed at the American bred holsteiner mare that was "imported" at my old barn. Somehow I think the N and A on either side of the brand means she is not imported, though most people wouldn't know the difference!



  18. #18
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    Week two... Ingate report. The chestnut Alcatraz gelding that caught my eye last week who was having some spooking and confidence issues earlier (yet still caught my eye as a talent) put it all together today in the Low Hunter Class when Glen Ronden rode him to a very impressive blue. Relaxed, supple soft, yet forward and very athletic came to mind, with "wow" jumping technique. I knew he had the class when he made his trip. He rode it like he owned it. It was everything I thought him capable of. Tip of the hat to the capable guidance of Glen Ronden.

    Another fun moment occured today I found out Shine was at the show. His owners from Olde Oaks Farm have him along for the ride, and take him to the shows so they can keep him in regular work. His regular rider is in a cast and unable to compete herself. He is 13 now and still showing in the Ammy owners, or will be as soon as Mom is better. I visited him in his stall. He was blanketed but what a gorgeous head and neck and very mannerly even with all the show commotion going on around. I am hopefully going to see him worked at 7 am on Friday morning in the main arena. A very classy stallion, and much loved. A smart promotion for the farm having a well mannered eye popping stallion along to show off outstanding temparament in a busy public scenario, not to mention having him available for viewing at any time.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    and could care less and feel lucky to find a horse that can get the job somewhat done.
    DOH!



  20. #20
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    Friday report.... Not much to add really but my little "pick of the litter" guy, the Alcatraz colt motored around today and put in solid trips. However, he was not alone and though he was in the ribbons, I don't think he won today, but he did place. Some of the others stepped up to the plate and put in some solid rounds as well.

    This one was really great... remember the big bay, level headed, teddy bear type that I have been liking as well. His name is CR Beethoven. Well today I popped the question... Who is he by?. The trainer said, "Sorry not sure." The owner was within hearing distance and said, "Wait, I know but can't remember his name. He is a famous Dutch stallion and is now deceased." I looked at the horse and ventured a guess...."Voltaire".

    Guess what! I was right! The trainer looked at me funny... and said... I don't believe that you knew!. I said... "Lucky guess, that's all." Ever had that happen. It was a first for me, but it was fun! Definitely made my day!!! However, don't tell anyone but it was definitely a lucky guess.



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