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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
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    349

    Default for those who think NB isn't pure fantasy & butchery

    Seen as iv been demonised as a troll on this forum & even it seems by the moderator 1, I'm not going to enter in to any debate, other than to ask those who support NB to read the fine print & hopefully have an explanation why & how theses qualified persons got it so wrong & there NB guru Gene is so right ?
    http://old.cvm.msu.edu/dressage/arti...cpres/MOEL.htm



  2. #2
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    Nov. 7, 2007
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    Default

    Did you have a good read NBers or are you to busy hiding under a rock as usual when confronted with the truth ,some people need to stop clinging to feel good do do storeys & get with whats true in life, sorry moderator, but some times things have to be said in this world to make a difference, if that makes me a troll & worthy of being banned then so be it, i can live with that, beats the hell out of standing back saying nothing & watching horses being crippled time & time again day in day out.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
    Posts
    15,233

    Default

    Perhaps if every member of COTH put darling jack on the 'ignore' list all of this nonsense would go away?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Douglasville, Georgia
    Posts
    17,462

    Default

    I just did. Thanks for reminding of that handy-dandy feature
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,388

    Default

    All members of this board are welcome to discuss, ignore or address posts as they wish, as long as their methods of communication adhere to the rules of the forum and maintain a generally respectful and productive atmosphere.

    Jack Mac, you're welcome to excerpt specific portions of the paper to which you've linked in order to foster further discussion if others wish to participate.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2007
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    8,428

    Default

    Forget saying no to drugs.. SAY NO TO TROLLS!
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,325

    Default

    Interesting link and interesting reading. The word "natural" appeared once and the word "balance" appeared not at all in the article. So jm's point escapes me (as usual) but it's a neat thing to read anyhow.

    In my field, people who cling to one bit of dogma over the years and never let it go are called something a lot more derisive than a "one trick pony".
    Click here before you buy.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,498

    Default

    Didn't we already have this discussion already?


    I've never known the NB method to be referred to as butchery. It's pretty much just a certain sort of trim with certain shoes that works for some horses.

    Never thought there was any fantasizing involved.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2007
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    741

    Default

    Is Jac Mac joking...I especially liked the second post by JM



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
    Posts
    5,368

    Default

    OP, I think there is a better way of stating your views so that you don't get labeled unnecessarily as a troll. I guess what I might respectfully suggest is that you word your posts more professionally and not succumb to foul language. I'm assuming that you are a farrier and if I read your posts and was your customer, I'd be a little embarrassed. I realize that you are obviously passionate about your views and that is good, it is difficult sometimes however to not "cross the line". My opinion, for what it's worth anyway, and yes I know you didn't ask. In any case, I'll play along, assuming the best for now. I did have an experience with a NB farrier who shod my horse a few times and even had Gene on the phone during the procedure(s). I say procedure because every shoeing took several hours and quite often she had her head on the ground assessing angles and such. I can tell you that I took a good bit of ribbing from the BO and the other boarders. I can also tell you that it helped not a bit and when I finally got the farrier that kept this horse sound for years he was one that made his own shoes and had not-so-nice things to say about the "ready-fit" shoes. I'm not against them for uncomplicated horses and in this gal's defense, I went through several farriers to get to the ONE that worked. JME



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
    Posts
    6,847

    Default

    I fail to see how the linked article has any bearing, positive or negative on NB or regular shoeing. Dr. Clayton simply describes the biomechanics/kinetics of the limb without any sort of relation to farriery. It is a good biomechanics article.

    Reed



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    I fail to see how the linked article has any bearing, positive or negative on NB or regular shoeing. Dr. Clayton simply describes the biomechanics/kinetics of the limb without any sort of relation to farriery. It is a good biomechanics article.

    Reed
    tend to agree-jm very hard for people to judge you when you dont say exactly what you do in the horse world-- and you give this and that of information and you yourself have admitted you google it-- so therefore most is third hand and hearsay so for people to judge as you have percieved by some then you only have yourself to blame by what you write

    if you are a triainer or a farrier etc then say so-- it might help



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2004
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    3,749

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    Well...if it looks like a troll, and acts like a troll...
    Maybe you really don't understand how this works, consider this a PSA...really, if you want people to have a rational, intelligent discussion with you on any subject, ESPECIALLY hoof care, then you have to present it in an intelligent, rational, NON-COMBATIVE way. Every post of yours I've read has made me less and less inclined to give any merit to anything you post.
    "We're still right, they're still wrong" James Carville



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
    Posts
    349

    Default

    The rudeness on my part stems from frustration with having to deal with what i refer to as smiling saboteurs, who's sole purpose on theses forums is to insure any topic up for discussion that doesn't fit with there little agenda or contradicts what they believe is true wont & mustn't succeed , the smiling saboteurs are usually the first to cry troll & encouraging others to do the same the article clearly defines that a horse needs the toe of his hoof to get lift & drive from, both front & hind feet, so it is fundamental in proper stride function in all gaits, NB protocol is based on the "total opposite". they can church NB up all they like, the fact is the toe is a critical part of the limb function, if you cant fathom or grasp what consequences & detrimental effects removing it from the function of the limb will cause, then i suggest maybe goldfish might be your calling in life.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    39,800

    Default

    Well then jackmac, why don't you draw/take a picture of/find a picture on the net of a properly trimmed foot, a long-toed foot, both with the PROPER placement of a NB shoe, and explain, in detail, why you think that is wrong, how it differs from a properly placed non-NB shoe, and how it differs from a bare foot that either is already properly trimmed, or has the breakover put where it needs to be until that's how it grows.

    Because so far, none of your arguments make ANY sense to ANYone here, including several vets and several certified farriers, nor anyone else. You never prove anything, yet continue down the same path with the same arguments.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    3,836

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack mac View Post
    the article clearly defines that a horse needs the toe of his hoof to get lift & drive from, both front & hind feet,
    Not quite.
    so it is fundamental in proper stride function in all gaits, NB protocol is based on the "total opposite".
    Wrong. Your misunderstanding/blind hatred of the NB protocols has caused you to make erroneous assumptions and state logical fallacies.
    they can church NB up all they like, the fact is the toe is a critical part of the limb function, if you cant fathom or grasp what consequences & detrimental effects removing it from the function of the limb will cause, then i suggest maybe goldfish might be your calling in life.
    So explain why the following shoe modifications are part and parcel of any qualified farrier's "bag of tricks":
    Rolled toes
    Rockered Toes,
    Blunt toes,
    Square toes

    Concave shoes with the toe knit shut
    Half-round shoes.

    For, in truth and practice, each of these shoes and modifications affects the toe and its place in hoof and limb function.

    Have you personally ever used any of the enumerated shoes or modifications? If so, which ones, and why?

    Perhaps its time for you to make personal use of your suggestion.



  17. #17
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    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    3,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Well then jackmac, ...................... You never prove anything, yet continue down the same path with the same arguments.
    Albert Einstein defined Insanity as " doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ..."

    So, it would seem we could take that definition and apply it to the consistency of the body of work Jack Mac produces and then draw our conclusions.......



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
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    349

    Default

    Lets have a fundamental look at what you would fit to the hinds of a horse with your NB protocol & what i fit to the hinds of horse i shoe, before we start talking about trimming a hoof properly & fitting shoes, contracted heels come to mind when i look at your shoes rick, ill let the punters judge,
    jacks http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...c/100_0561.jpg Rickshttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...yndrome016.jpg
    Last edited by jack mac; Jan. 24, 2008 at 01:01 AM.



  19. #19
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    Nov. 7, 2007
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    349



  20. #20
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    Nov. 7, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoofrx1 View Post
    Albert Einstein defined Insanity as " doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ..."

    So, it would seem we could take that definition and apply it to the consistency of the body of work Jack Mac produces and then draw our conclusions.......
    ill let the quality of your work speak for its self Rick. your quite welcome to call me insane
    http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/sho...?t=6809&page=3



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