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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2007
    Posts
    26

    Default Thanks for you information

    I deleted my post since I see from some of you that what I was discussing is not the norm and others of you want to cause an attack on someone just interested in learning more about the dressage way. I have found the answers I am looking for
    Last edited by yikes123; Jan. 15, 2008 at 09:53 AM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2007
    Posts
    537

    Default

    None of the above is normal, except for the boots while being worked. The rest is just crazya@@ed stuff.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2000
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Nope, not typical or normal.

    One of your items has me interested:

    ften they were lunged in double bridles with draw reins very tight
    I can't help asking, how was this accomplished? How did they secure the draw reins without rider hands holding them - I can't visualize this. Are you sure that's what you saw?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2000
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,497

    Default

    Boots..yes, the rest of the stuff ODD!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2000
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    very dry and flat with grass.
    Grass!? What area of what country was this?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2000
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    ll of the horses are 6 figures animals.
    As in, at least $100million? Are you sure? How do you know the prices of all these lame animals?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2000
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    owner who is 26 and gets her info on the internet.
    How do you know where the owner gets her info?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,797

    Default

    The trolls are coming out early this year........................
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2007
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yikes123 View Post

    I just feel bad for these horses. I am an experienced horse person who trains in a different disipline and though I already know the answers to most of the above I want to hear from you. Thanks
    Trolls indeed!
    If you already know the answers then why post??



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    5,490

    Default

    Sounds like lame and sore horses getting alot of walking and short works and lots of vet visits and no turnout, but lots of hand walking. Probably a rehab place!

    Since the OP already knows what he WANTS to hear from us, why post?

    Alot of fallacy in that OP.
    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.



  11. #11

    Default

    I don't think the OP isn't making this up, as I have a feeling I know what barn you just spent time at.....

    In Europe they do walk horses on concrete regularly, not done much here, the walkers are common but somewhat less so in dressage barns. Lunging horses in doubles and draw reins shouldn't be done anywhere.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
    Location
    Between the Medina River and a hay field
    Posts
    9,894

    Default

    This is not the normal.
    Not sure where you were, but this is not how a lot of trainers I know deal with things.
    Sorry you got THAT experience.
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,508

    Default

    As in, at least $100million? Are you sure?
    6 figures is $100,000, not $100,000,000.
    I'm not great at numbers either...but I thought $100 million sounded like it should have a *lot* more zeros on it than 6 total numbers.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    1,436

    Default

    Hand walking on concrete will not MAKE horses lame and will not hurt them. In fact none of the things you mentioned regarding walking, including the use of boots, will hurt them.

    If the people want to wrap their horses' legs how is that any of your concern? Lots of people choose to do this. Maybe not most, and maybe not me and you, but it will not hurt the horses.

    How do you know the cost of the horses? How do you know the "starch" content of the grain?

    I doubt if there were really "a million" supplements in the feed. If you are exaggerating on that point, maybe you are exaggerating or misinformed on other points?

    We may not all agree with the practices you mention. However, since it is not our barn and our horses, I don't really see where it is any of our business. This is still a free country and unless the horses are being abused or starved I am sure the owners can decide for themselves what to do.

    If this were my barn and I found out you had visited (under what circumstances) and then were publishing critical comments on the internet, you would NOT be invited back.

    MYOB.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2001
    Location
    Purcellville, VA
    Posts
    5,933

    Default

    I bet the "draw reins" may have been vienna reins.

    Glad someone else caught that 6 figures is 100,000 not 100,000,000.

    I've been in a few big dressage barns and while the horse keeping is often not my style, it is not abusive (the ones I've been at).



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
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    Default

    It is not appropriate for a veterinarian to discuss with a third party the feeding, medication practices, or management of someone else's horses.

    If you have horses and a barn, then of course you would not want to keep your own horses this way, I presume. But I think you said you were visiting this barn and they were not your horses.

    Being a busybody usually does not benefit anyone. The tone and language of your OP did not suggest that you were seeking information. It suggested that you were being a busybody.

    If you have questions as to why the horses were treated this way, why not ask their owners?

    Many people in many disciplines manage their horses very differently than you or I would. That doesn't mean it is "wrong".



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2007
    Posts
    2,094

    Default Exactly my idea

    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca yount View Post
    Hand walking on concrete will not MAKE horses lame and will not hurt them. In fact none of the things you mentioned regarding walking, including the use of boots, will hurt them.

    If the people want to wrap their horses' legs how is that any of your concern? Lots of people choose to do this. Maybe not most, and maybe not me and you, but it will not hurt the horses.

    How do you know the cost of the horses? How do you know the "starch" content of the grain?

    I doubt if there were really "a million" supplements in the feed. If you are exaggerating on that point, maybe you are exaggerating or misinformed on other points?

    We may not all agree with the practices you mention. However, since it is not our barn and our horses, I don't really see where it is any of our business. This is still a free country and unless the horses are being abused or starved I am sure the owners can decide for themselves what to do.

    If this were my barn and I found out you had visited (under what circumstances) and then were publishing critical comments on the internet, you would NOT be invited back.

    MYOB.
    Rebecca I totaly agree with you !

    Which horses ? . Were they just before a competition ? Build of the Horse ? Size of the Horse ? Breeding of the Horse ? Age of the horse ? Habbits of the horses ?

    Working a horse on concrete solid grounds for 30-40 minutes is very good for their bonestructure and can tell you everything about injuries. That's why they do the vet-check on concrete soil. We hate tredmills, but we might be the only one over here, we call these tredmills "lazy people machines" . We rather take a bike and start travelling around with the boys (we have only stallions).

    We feed all our competition horses 5 times a day, and depending on the horse they get some kind of supplements. In between (when the kids come out of school) they feed them kiwis, bananas, apples or carrots, just what they fancy). And when I have time I feed them apple-pie, and yes they recognise the sound of my car. Every day we play another kind of music in their stables, and we celebrate every birthday of a horse in the stables, and yes they like champagne. When they don't have to go to a competition within three weeks, we send them out in the pasture with some toys and a bunch of shetlander-ponys.

    Next to the things I mentioned above I don't see anything wrong in this approach.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2007
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca yount View Post
    It is not appropriate for a veterinarian to discuss with a third party the feeding, medication practices, or management of someone else's horses.

    If you have horses and a barn, then of course you would not want to keep your own horses this way, I presume. But I think you said you were visiting this barn and they were not your horses.

    Being a busybody usually does not benefit anyone. The tone and language of your OP did not suggest that you were seeking information. It suggested that you were being a busybody.

    If you have questions as to why the horses were treated this way, why not ask their owners?

    Many people in many disciplines manage their horses very differently than you or I would. That doesn't mean it is "wrong".

    I am asking the dressage community as a whole to seek information on their practices. I did speak to the owner. You are assuming some things that you should'nt. Again, I've made my intention VERY clear. I am just interested in what is and is not the norm for dressage horses. I'm not sure why you can't just let it go at that. There is no need to attack my questions. I am not being a busybody as you say. It sounds to me like you are trying to be one with your tone. Sorry to have potentially offended you but, as I repeat I'm just asking some basic questions based on something I saw to increase my knowledge. If you can't handle it then don't post.
    Last edited by yikes123; Jan. 15, 2008 at 09:38 AM. Reason: grammar



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    I was very uncomfortable with the questions as well. It didn't sound like the intent was to open discussion on horse management at all, but to make the barn manager and owner look bad in public. The OP may be very upset at how this is being responded to, but Rebecca isn't the only one that was not comfortable with this. Your descriptions are so peppered with 'feeling' adjectives that color how anyone would respond...with the way you wrote it, it's very slanted to get people to agree with you that the horses are managed incorrectly.

    You said the horses were 'tense'...another person might go and say the horses were full of energy and very healthy and eager to work.

    You said they got 'millions' of supplements...another person might say each horse received an individually taylored diet.

    You said horses were lame...another person might say that after their competitive career was over, instead of being uncaringly sold 'down the road' the horses were carefully maintained with a meticulous exercise and diet to keep them comfortable.

    The 'feeling' words you use are very slanted to the picture you want people to have of the place.

    If you really want to learn something, you could avoid discussing a specific farm, or you would avoid all the 'feeling' words.

    You could say, 'I saw horses walked on a hard surface the other day...has anyone else any information about 'legging up' horses this way'?

    You could discuss management practices in general, and let various people say their opinions. You will see, as on most topics here, that beliefs on how horses should be managed vary widely. Most likely, horses are far more flexible than their owners .

    For years when country roads had lighter traffic many different types of sport horsemen took great pains to walk their horses on the roads for several hours a day to strengthen their legs and feet, so did most cavalries, many old photos of cavalry riders working horses show them on the road (compacted from use if not paved), leading one horse and riding another and knee boots on the horses. That is how the horses were worked for a certain portion of their exercise.

    Niggli's book on the Olympics shows American cavalry officers who competed in the old Olympics working their horses this way. Many good books like Haye's Stable Management and Exercise discuss road work at a walk for horses.

    Modern research has shown that slow work on a hard surface benefits horses. It increases bone density and tendon and ligament structure is improved. The key is finding a good surface and a safe area, and combining it with other exercise in the right proportions.

    I've seen people read the research and apply it incorrectly (like the sore footed horse that was longed at a strong trot on gravel and got MORE sore footed), but the description above sounds like it's being appropriately applied.

    I'd suggest asking questions and trying to learn, there is a wealth of information out there.
    Last edited by slc2; Jan. 15, 2008 at 09:57 AM.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    Except for the longeing in draw reins/double bridle, a lot of those things are pretty typical for this time of year. Often the arena is flooded, so people handwalk/ride on the driveway/paths around the barn. Horses aren't turned out so they won't rip up muddy pastures. If they have a hotwalker with good footing, they might well use it. You said that they have grassy dry fields, so it doesn't sound like those measures are necessary at that barn, but in and of themselves, I wouldn't be shocked by them or by lots of supplements. None of those things are specific to dressage. I agree that the vet shouldn't discuss the horse's medical issues without the owners' consent.
    Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.



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