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View Poll Results: Do you feel judges are fair on gaits of the horses

Voters
93. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, they are judging the way a horse should move correctly

    55 59.14%
  • No, they are giving higher scores to tricks and unnatural movements

    29 31.18%
  • Unless the horse is double jointed in the front end, you always get a 5

    5 5.38%
  • Pure gaits are a thing of the past. Trick riding is the future of dressage

    17 18.28%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 21 to 27 of 27
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
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    9,989

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I understand this, but it is also frequently said that one cannot create fabulous gaits---after all, this is what people pay the big bucks for.
    People need to learn how to ride dressage if they can't take a good mover and get a fabulous mover.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    8,183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    So it seems to me that any statements about the "guality" of the gait in a particular movement should be secondary to the correctness of the movement--unless, of course, the gait is impure. In other words, a poorly performed pirouette should not get a higher score than an accurate, well performed pirouette simply because the first horse is a better mover.

    Otherwise, horses with spectacular gaits get rewarded three times for each movement. Once for the movement and again in the collective scores where the coefficient is applied.

    Exactly. I would say that most "gait" judging is pretty fair. My retiree had three "pure" gaits, but he was a flat, TB type mover with minimal suspension. I had to work hard for what little suspension I could creat in his gaits, but if we had it "together" he'd get a 7 and on one rare occasion, an 8 (still can't quite figure that one out!). But he was always steady in the bridle, extremely obedient, bending correctly, etc. If an equally well-schooled correct horse out-scored me because he was a brilliant mover, I had no problem. It was when my horse and I put in a good, accurate, correct test and got vastly outscored by a fantastic mover that was on-and-off the bit, toe-flipping in front but not through the back or engaged behind, disobedient, etc. that I got.... annoyed.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Hurdle Mills, NC
    Posts
    4,106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I understand this, but it is also frequently said that one cannot create fabulous gaits---after all, this is what people pay the big bucks for.

    So it seems to me that any statements about the "guality" of the gait in a particular movement should be secondary to the correctness of the movement--unless, of course, the gait is impure. In other words, a poorly performed pirouette should not get a higher score than an accurate, well performed pirouette simply because the first horse is a better mover.

    Otherwise, horses with spectacular gaits get rewarded three times for each movement. Once for the movement and again in the collective scores where the coefficient is applied.
    Collective marks, are, as the name implies, summaries-- and gaits is only one of them. The beautifully "submissive" horse gets "rewarded three times for each movement" in which s/he displays that quality just as the horse with spectacular gaits gets rewarded for that gift. It seems to me that the collective marks are designed to make sure that the occasional uncharacteristic slips/losses of quality/obedience do not result in scores which are overall too harsh-- or become too high because of occasional flashes of brilliance or accidental moments of correctness either. In the meantime, I would think that the recent increase in the coefficient for rider should have the effect so many riders clearly desire-- i.e., that of giving special weight to what the rider does with the equine talent (or lack thereof) s/he sits on.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2003
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    6,159

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Collective marks, are, as the name implies, summaries-- and gaits is only one of them. The beautifully "submissive" horse gets "rewarded three times for each movement" in which s/he displays that quality just as the horse with spectacular gaits gets rewarded for that gift. It seems to me that the collective marks are designed to make sure that the occasional uncharacteristic slips/losses of quality/obedience do not result in scores which are overall too harsh-- or become too high because of occasional flashes of brilliance or accidental moments of correctness either. In the meantime, I would think that the recent increase in the coefficient for rider should have the effect so many riders clearly desire-- i.e., that of giving special weight to what the rider does with the equine talent (or lack thereof) s/he sits on.
    I don't recall any movements in which "submissiveness" or "rider's position and correct application of the aids" are also mentioned in the directives for the movement. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember that.

    I think that you are right (if I remember correctly) that sometimes the quality of the gait is mentioned in the directives for some individual movements, and if so, I can understand why this might be applied to reward (or punish) a horse on his gaits 3 times for the same movement. But I think that this is the only thing for which a collective score is given that is also marked up or down in the individual movement. Personally, I think that it creates a strong over emphasis on gaits, but if that is what is actually intended, so be it.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
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    Hurdle Mills, NC
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    4,106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I don't recall any movements in which "submissiveness" or "rider's position and correct application of the aids" are also mentioned in the directives for the movement. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember that.
    Submissiveness, impulsion, and rider correctness & effectiveness are judged and rewarded under countless other directives such as correctness of the figure/angle, accuracy of transitions, etc. and do not therefore require separate mention. As we all know, it is impossible to negotiate an accurate circle without a submissive horse and correct, effective aids, but one can easily ride a very good circle without demonstrating a quality gait.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
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    Hurdle Mills, NC
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    4,106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I don't recall any movements in which "submissiveness" or "rider's position and correct application of the aids" are also mentioned in the directives for the movement. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember that.
    Submissiveness, impulsion, and rider correctness & effectiveness are judged and rewarded under countless other directives such as correctness of the figure/angle, accuracy of transitions, etc. and do not therefore require separate mention. As we all know, it is impossible to negotiate an accurate circle without a submissive horse and correct, effective aids, but it is possible to ride an accurate circle without demonstrating a quality gait.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Hurdle Mills, NC
    Posts
    4,106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I don't recall any movements in which "submissiveness" or "rider's position and correct application of the aids" are also mentioned in the directives for the movement. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember that.
    Submissiveness, impulsion, and rider correctness & effectiveness are judged and rewarded under countless other directives such as correctness of the figure/angle, accuracy of transitions, etc. and do not therefore require separate ones. As we all know, it is impossible to negotiate an accurate circle without a submissive horse and correct, effective aids, but it is possible to ride an accurate circle without demonstrating a quality gait.



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