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  1. #1
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    Nov. 15, 1999
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    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
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    6,250



  2. #2

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    I'll never understand the concept all horses should not be slaughtered because some win a " ribbon ". Some cattle, hogs, and sheep do also but I don't think they should be banned from slaughter either. A Federal ban? Never say never but theres no indication its going to happen or if its even legal I know I sure don't want to lose the customers I sell young stock to Can. I precdict to Cavel plant in Ill. at some point will be allowed to reopen, the Tx. plants I don't think will nor does Beltex want to they have way to much money invested in their new Mex. facility.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
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    They've also not noted the "unintended consequence" of failing rescues, rising abandonments, rising incidents of underfed horses, etc.

    So much "journalisitic ethics," eh?

    The "New York Once Upon A Times" is alive and well.

    G.



  4. #4
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    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Trailer Trash Ammy!
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    Very badly researched article.

    As we all know, transport to Mex and Canada for slaughter is NOTHING new. I had one stolen from me in Mass. and transported to Canada via Detroit in 1976... It's absolutely irrational to suggest that this is a brand spanking new thing. It's not, and I have 40 years' worth of heartache to prove it.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  5. #5
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    They've also not noted the "unintended consequence" of failing rescues, rising abandonments, rising incidents of underfed horses, etc.

    So much "journalisitic ethics," eh?

    The "New York Once Upon A Times" is alive and well.

    G.
    Good catch there, but in reality, all those new rescues and some of them failing or being scams is fairly new on the radar.
    That information may take a while to trickle down to the general media.
    I expect it is so obvious now that all will have to take notice that was not much of a solution to absorb all those unwanted horses.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Weren't some of these "rescues" what might be called "old line?" I know some were thinly disguised scams but not all. And then there's also the giving away of OTTBs to add to the mix.

    I don't expect "general circulation" newsies to be experts in narrow areas (like DNA research or plasma physics) but even a short time on this board would demonstrate that the U.S. equine industry, below the absolute top (flat racing TBs, top level eventers, premier cutters, etc.) is in deep and serious kimchi.

    Horses are livestock, not "devoted companions." They require specialized facilities, specialized knowledge, and "end of life" issues are LARGE.

    But, then, the NYOUAT prints all the news that fit print...and they get to decide what's "fit."

    G.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2007
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    434

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I expect it is so obvious now that all will have to take notice that was not much of a solution to absorb all those unwanted horses.

    I'm curious about this statement, because of the quote from the article saying: "the Agriculture Department estimates that 105,000 American horses were slaughtered in the three countries in 2007, down from some 138,000 the year before."

    assuming that the number of horses produced in the US has remained fairly static in recent years (has it?), then it would appear that a good number of horse have been absorbed - otherwise, where are those 33,000+/- horses?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2002
    Location
    PA, where the State motto is: "If it makes sense, we don't do it!".
    Posts
    11,567

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    Posted by Guilherme:
    So much "journalisitic ethics," eh?
    Could you please explain what you mean? I thought the article was about the unintended consequences of slaughter--not abuse in general.... Granted the person could have expanded but in the end reporters write on the subject they are told to write about, and anything else gets cut.

    also posted by Guilherme:
    But, then, the NYOUAT prints all the news that fit print...and they get to decide what's "fit."
    It's like that at any newspaper, just not the NYTimes.... I have to ask--are you a disgruntled ex-employee????
    I agree there are times when journalists write bad stories but I didn't see anything glaringly wrong with this story.... It's not being written for horse people per se--it's being written for the average Joe who probably has never even seen a horse in person, let alone patted one (and not gotten "trampled").....

    I don't know of any "old" rescues that have gone under--most of them have their finances worked out and are keeping their heads above water. I think it's the self-proclaimed rescues that are taking the hit (and some of them wouldn't have gone under if outsiders hadn't screamed their lungs out about the condition of the horses there--it would just have been business as usual. So what if a horse dies? We'll just cover it over with straw where it lies. ). The economy is really, really bad. A lot of people who "rescue" do so at their own expense and when the money runs out, well--too bad, so sad. A lot never bother to think far enough ahead--they should have been thinking about generating income before they even brought the first horse home!!!!
    "Marriage is like a deck of cards--it starts with two hearts and a diamond and after a while you wish you had a club and a spade." ~seen on an anniversary card~



  9. #9
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    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Horses are livestock, not "devoted companions."
    In your opinion. Others' opinions vary.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2001
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    Glenns, VA USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Very badly researched article.

    As we all know, transport to Mex and Canada for slaughter is NOTHING new. I had one stolen from me in Mass. and transported to Canada via Detroit in 1976... It's absolutely irrational to suggest that this is a brand spanking new thing. It's not, and I have 40 years' worth of heartache to prove it.
    I am not an expert on horse slaughter, but I didn't read it to say this was NEW but now that horses aren't being slaughtered in the US that MORE horses are being shipped to Canada and Mexico.

    I am totally against the slaughter of horses (well any animal really, until more humane protocols are in place and we can become less wasteful) BUT am well aware of "unintentional consequences" that come from the ban, where will all these horses go?

    Ultimately, as horse owners we need to act more responsibly, breed more responsibly and stop being so GREEDY. I feel just as bad for the ribbon winner that end up in the feedlots than I do for the no-name from someone's backyard, it is horrible way for these wonderful animals to end up.

    Most journalists write to inflame the person reading it one way or another, when was the last time you read an article that had ALL the facts in it? Never. Take it for what it is, and hopefully it will get folks thinking and hopefully, act more responsibly if and when they ever become a horse owner.
    www.brydellefarm.com ....developing riders, NOT passengers!
    Member of LNHorsemanshipT & Proud of It Clique
    "What gets me up every morning is realizing how much more there is still to learn." -GHM



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2000
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    5,047

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    Not taking one view or another but the media dissapoints me so much lately. Why can't the news report factual, correct, well researched and unbiased information. I have an opnion, thank you, I would just like to know what the story or situation is without having the reporter on my shoulder whispering their views..same goes for anchors and all news media.
    "All life is precious"
    Sophie Scholl



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2002
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    posted by Moesha--
    the media dissapoints me so much lately.
    Lately??? I've been dissapointed in it since that day in 1964 when Walter Cronkite looked right into the camera and had to ask his colleagues (on the air) something to the effect, "Can't we get anything right anymore?"!!!!

    Most reporters nowadays mistake their opinions for fact....
    "Marriage is like a deck of cards--it starts with two hearts and a diamond and after a while you wish you had a club and a spade." ~seen on an anniversary card~



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2000
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    Cherry,
    I wasn't born then!LOL But I have always questioned the motives and slants behind stories and events..but still have held out hope and naive theoretical dreaminess that the world would change and we would all be living in a better place....reality not quite as pretty as a college classroom

    I agree it is a long standing sad situation
    "All life is precious"
    Sophie Scholl



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 18, 2007
    Location
    Norco, CA
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    923

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Very badly researched article.

    As we all know, transport to Mex and Canada for slaughter is NOTHING new. I had one stolen from me in Mass. and transported to Canada via Detroit in 1976... It's absolutely irrational to suggest that this is a brand spanking new thing. It's not, and I have 40 years' worth of heartache to prove it.
    You have a very similar reaction to this article as myself. Horses have always been slaughtered in all three countries...

    The writer appears to think that long distance transportation to slaughter is something new. Hmm. There hasn't been a horse slaughter plant in California for decades; California horses have long been shipped as far as Illinois, Texas and of course Alberta and Juarez to be slaughtered. What is NEW?

    I'm also disappointed that the journalist seems to think that long hauls are the worst of the slaughter pipeline. I'd challenge that journalist to visit their local kill pen or feedlot, take a few carrots, and ask whether they think the horses there care which country they are slaughtered in. Conditions at killers' lots across the country are disgusting, deplorable. I'm just not willing to accept the arguments of anyone here any longer that the slaughter pipeline has anything to do with humane treatment of our horses. Its absurd.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moesha View Post
    Cherry,
    I wasn't born then!LOL But I have always questioned the motives and slants behind stories and events..but still have held out hope and naive theoretical dreaminess that the world would change and we would all be living in a better place....reality not quite as pretty as a college classroom

    I agree it is a long standing sad situation
    Well, at least this article did make it into the NY Times and while not entirely accurate, will raise awareness.



  16. #16

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    Well I've been in killer pens accross the country all my life, horse, cattle, hogs, and sheep. Theres no differance in them they all have livestock waiting to be slaughtered theres no one worse then the next and unless consumers are willing to pay a signifacant amount more for the product they buy theres not going to be any wholesale changes.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    14,658

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    Anyone who didn't see this situation coming had their head in the sand. Sadly, I'm afraid we're going to see a huge surge in starvation and neglect cases as well.
    "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."



  18. #18

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    Theres seems to be more cases or more reports of them. But I think it has much more to do with the huge surge in hay and grain prices plus the fact the average horse owner has more horses. I really don't see any slaughter connection since slaughter is still legal and active. I hardly think slaughtering 38,000 less horses out of 9,250,000 is the cause.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    Well I've been in killer pens accross the country all my life, horse, cattle, hogs, and sheep. Theres no differance in them they all have livestock waiting to be slaughtered theres no one worse then the next and unless consumers are willing to pay a signifacant amount more for the product they buy theres not going to be any wholesale changes.
    Why? You've got me thinking before, and I know this has been an argument, but why? Why do we have to pay for humane? At this point I can & do pay for "certified humane" but why should I have to?

    I promise I have looked at both sides (and we all know what side I lean to) but if this is what the consumer wants, and is starting to demand, why the $$$? Shrink wrap will cost the same, the American Cattlemen's Assoc. fought tooth & nail to keep the secret of where the meat came from so they paid lobbyists their big bucks to keep it off the little label slapped on the cheap shrink wrap. They claimed it would add something like $2.50 per LABEL (someone help me on that one to double-check the amount!) on every piece of meat that they already label.

    I've not had the experiences that you have had but they do already know who's load is getting slaughtered that day right? Isn't that how they try to keep track of the cooties that go around and need recalled?

    I'm just not getting the "it's gonna cost us more money as consumers". Why?
    "Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

    Ponies are cool!



  20. #20

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    Why/ Because anytime you increase costs the cost gets passed on. And the consumer has made it clear they want food as cheap as it can be and will not pay a higher cost. If your going to make kill pens larger or house fewer animals per pen then cost goes up. If your going to require fans or cooling systems in kill pens then costs go up. Each thing drives cost its just a basic fact. And if cost goes up then the consumer pays more. If they don't pay then the changes just don't happen unless a law is made. No differant then any other industry, you think Ford Motor Company makes changes out of theirt pocket book because they want to?
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



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