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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    5,511

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    I see what you all are saying, and I guess mine was a pretty dumb post. The electrical shock in the horse's mouth had me twirling there. Of course electrical charges are the same across materials, and I really didn't think and blew it on that post. Calling people peabrains was particularly extra dumb and not nice. Sorry folks.

    I retract it!
    But I can't.
    But I would if I could!
    But I can't.
    Interesting thread, anyway.
    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.



  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,271

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabz View Post
    Janet - that's good to hear, can you point me in the right direciton (website) for the rule change? I'm not being picky - but I sometimes help at a tack booth during Expos and it helps to know "some" rules.... and if they change, to be able to tell the shopper about it. (Although I ALWAYS tell them, it's not my responsibility to know what's legal for THEIR particular situation).

    If I have a piece of paper or copy of the rule, it's helpful. I know I still get those who won't buy a mixed metal bit for the horse - not even for training purposes.
    The rule change itself is too many years ago to still be on the web site.

    They took out the clause saying that bits must all be of one metal.

    So there isn't a particular clause that says "two metal bits are legal". But ther eis no longer anything saying they are not legal. As Peggy said, it is DR121, on pg DR17, after "figure 1".
    All bits (in A and B below) must be smooth and with a solid surface. Twisted, wire and roller
    bits are prohibited. A bushing or coupling is permitted as the center link in a double jointed
    snaffle, however, the surface of the center piece must be solid with no moveable parts. The
    mouthpiece of a snaffle may be shaped in a slight curve, but ported snaffles are prohibited.
    A bridoon is defined as a snaffle bit used together with a curb bit to form a double bridle.
    Bits (including curb and/or bridoon bits of a double bridle) must be made of metal or rigid
    plastic and may be covered with rubber; flexible rubber bits are not permitted, except as
    noted below, under A. The diameter of the snaffle or bridoon mouthpiece must be minimum
    3/8 inch diameter at rings or cheeks of the mouthpiece (exception: for ponies, the diameter
    may be less than 3/8 inches). Any bit combining any mouthpiece pictured in Figure 1A with
    any cheekpiece pictured in Figure 1A is permitted. Type of bit should not vary from those
    pictured below except where specified, and bits should be attached only as pictured in
    diagram. NOTE: FEI Level riders may warm up only in a double bridle (with both bit and/or
    bridoon made of metal or rigid plastic) or metal or rigid plastic snaffles pictured under B. In
    both cases, bits may be covered with rubber and flexible rubber bits are not permitted. A
    cavesson, dropped, crossed or flash noseband is allowed when a snaffle bridle is used in
    warm-up.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  3. #63
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2003
    Location
    Lapeer, MI, USA
    Posts
    4,075

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    Thank you Janet & Peggy.

    Back to the OP... so what is the conclusion here? That a solid copper mouthpiece (not actually solid, but a mouthpiece completely covered by copper) will generate a minute electrical charge; and a mouthpiece with mixed metals, i.e., stainless steel with tiny bits of pure copper or sweet iron with tiny bits of pure copper; will produce a minute electrical charge and that each will be different based on the acid/alkalinity of the horse's mouth and that, in turn, creates the salivating?

    And is it agreed that salivating is a good thing? Or is that another topic that has been done to death elsewhere?



  4. #64
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 1999
    Posts
    14,488

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    Wash your bits, and put each in your mouth for a minute. I will definitely use MY mouth as the BEST real judge available since I can't ask my horse. Copper, German Silver, Aurgian, all cause me a burning, irritation in my mouth. Stainless steel does not. I definitely do not want to irritate my horse's mouth.

    With proper riding, you shouldn't NEED to use a chemical reaction to make a moist mouth.



  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

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    As the proud owner of some amalgam fillings, I know quite well that real silver flatware reacts in my mouth and leaves an awful metallic, tinfoil taste
    How do you know that's from your fillings? My son (no fillings) says the same thing about "real" silver flatware. I have TONS of fillings and can't taste anything funny with silver.
    Click here before you buy.



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2000
    Location
    Amherst, MA
    Posts
    5,380

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    I *have* put all my horse's bits in my mouth (I have always done it before they ever went into my horse's mouth). I never tasted much difference between stainless, copper, aurigan (H-S's alloy), and Kangaroo (the Dewsbury alloy). Maybe the bits with copper contents have a very slightly sweeter taste, but nothing to get excited about.

    Never felt anything that I'd call an electrical charge; that doesn't mean that there isn't one, just that if there is it is so slight as to not register.

    Possibly horse saliva is different chemically than human saliva, or maybe there's enough difference among individuals (both human and horses) to alter individual acceptance.

    If your horse goes well in whatever bit it is, it doesn't really matter.



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2007
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    8,258

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabz View Post
    Thank you Janet & Peggy.

    Back to the OP... so what is the conclusion here? That a solid copper mouthpiece (not actually solid, but a mouthpiece completely covered by copper) will generate a minute electrical charge; and a mouthpiece with mixed metals, i.e., stainless steel with tiny bits of pure copper or sweet iron with tiny bits of pure copper; will produce a minute electrical charge and that each will be different based on the acid/alkalinity of the horse's mouth and that, in turn, creates the salivating?

    And is it agreed that salivating is a good thing? Or is that another topic that has been done to death elsewhere?
    Yeah, I think you're right. And I think we came to the conclusion that bits with two different metals in them, like copper and stainless steel, will have a slightly more powerful charge I guess you'd say, but both are still quite minute.

    And I guess it's debated if salivation is good or not. Some folks think if copper's the only thing making the horse salivate, then that's bad. Personally, I don't see that much more salivation in copper bits than in regular bits, so it makes no difference to me. I HAVE, however, seen some horses more readily accept the bit if it's copper or has copper on it, they seem to prefer that over 100% stainless steel.

    Fairview; Note my 'experiment' where I put a copper penny in my mouth. Noticed no real difference.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  8. #68
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,446

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    So let me get this straight.

    If I stick my finger in an electric socket, with my horse's bit in my mouth, and the bit touches a filling, and I also have a lightbulb wedged in there - will the light turn on or not?

    Now if I can't hunt the horse in a snaffle, and must use a Kimberwicke - does that make a difference in how bright the bulb glows? Or is the real difference only seen if the kimberwicke is copper?

    And is the light strong enough to read by?

    And will it make my hair curl?

    If it does - do you think I could do this to my horse so that I don't have to perm his tail?

    Just think of how much fun I'd be at parties. I could take my whole collection of bits, and in an effort to be "green" would of course use the fluorescent light bulbs that make my house look like a dirty gas station bathroom.



  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

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    You'll be too damn dead to care. AC is BAD. DC, you stand a chance.
    Click here before you buy.



  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

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    You'll be too damn dead to care. AC is BAD. DC, you stand a chance.

    But please invite me to the party--I'd like to see the "collection"!
    Click here before you buy.



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