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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2007
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    2,094

    Default I agree

    I agree with the fact that the most important thing is to set up a good trainingprogram for the dressage trainers. But I have to add to this, that it is also very important that the advices (of these very well educated trainers) have to be followed by their students. Toooooooo many times I read on dressage-forums that students follow their own opinion and start one or two classes higher as adviced by their trainers. Or things like "my trainer didn't want me to start at 3th level" so I went to another trainer.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Loudoun County, VA
    Posts
    10,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freestyle2music View Post
    I agree with the fact that the most important thing is to set up a good trainingprogram for the dressage trainers. But I have to add to this, that it is also very important that the advices (of these very well educated trainers) have to be followed by their students. Toooooooo many times I read on dressage-forums that students follow their own opinion and start one or two classes higher as adviced by their trainers. Or things like "my trainer didn't want me to start at 3th level" so I went to another trainer.
    Of course, But that has nothing to do with whether we need a qualification system in this country, which will impact many, many more people than the few people who have little self-knowledge and choose to disregard their own trainers' advice.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 1999
    Location
    Rosehill, TX
    Posts
    7,080

    Default

    a costly proposal without need nor justification

    if there was need/justification then the proponents should have facts and figures to back up said need -- I have not read of any being brought forth
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2008
    Location
    Germany/Canada
    Posts
    38

    Default Our German qualification system

    Our German qualification system



    Rider has to present the horse in hand in walk and trot.
    Rider has to mount the horse in front of the judges.
    Horse rider combination has to go over a little jump.
    Horse rider combination has to ride between people who are waving ribbons and large empty trash bags.
    Some helpers let balloons fly behind a hedge, but in plain view of the horse.
    Other helpers quickly open up umbrellas right next to the horse rider combination.
    The horse rider combination has to ride across a large tarp on the ground.
    A helper has to pull a large bag with rattling metal objects alongside the horse.
    The horse rider combination has to ride across a small wooden bridge.
    After dismounting, the rider has to spray his horse with water out of a spray bottle



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
    Posts
    4,919

    Default

    Hmmmm, we have the same system here except it's applied to dogs and is called the Canine Good Citizen test. :-)
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2007
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    Hmmmm, we have the same system here except it's applied to dogs and is called the Canine Good Citizen test. :-)
    This is almost similair to what we have in Holland. These tests have to be succesfully done, before you and your horse are allowed to ride on public roads. NO SIEGI THIS IS NO JOKE !

    The only thing which we have added in Holland is that you have to mount from the ground.

    So start preparing yourself, because I also know that the American government has planned to implement the same law.

    AND AGAIN : NO SIEGI THIS ISN't A JOKE EITHER.

    Theo



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2002
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    616



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 1999
    Location
    South Coast Plaza
    Posts
    20,491



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,554

    Default

    Our German qualification system



    Rider has to present the horse in hand in walk and trot.
    Rider has to mount the horse in front of the judges.
    Horse rider combination has to go over a little jump.
    Horse rider combination has to ride between people who are waving ribbons and large empty trash bags.
    Some helpers let balloons fly behind a hedge, but in plain view of the horse.
    Other helpers quickly open up umbrellas right next to the horse rider combination.
    The horse rider combination has to ride across a large tarp on the ground.
    A helper has to pull a large bag with rattling metal objects alongside the horse.
    The horse rider combination has to ride across a small wooden bridge.
    After dismounting, the rider has to spray his horse with water out of a spray bottle
    This sounds very much like a typical Western trail class anywhere in America. Even our children do this in those classes.
    "We don't ride the clock. We ride the horse." Reiner Klimke.
    http://community.webshots.com/user/arnikaelf



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2000
    Posts
    3,953

    Default

    << The only thing which we have added in Holland is that you have to mount from the ground. >>


    Well, that's the dealbreaker that stops me from moving to Holland!

    LOL
    one oak, lots of canyons

    http://horsesportnews.wordpress.com/



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2007
    Location
    Rising Sun, MD
    Posts
    3,702

    Default

    Here, here! Rebecca- a very well written letter indeed!
    “While the rest of the species is descended from apes, redheads are descended from cats.” Mark Twain



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Loudoun County, VA
    Posts
    10,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonaldGroen View Post
    Our German qualification system



    Rider has to present the horse in hand in walk and trot.
    Rider has to mount the horse in front of the judges.
    Horse rider combination has to go over a little jump.
    Horse rider combination has to ride between people who are waving ribbons and large empty trash bags.
    Some helpers let balloons fly behind a hedge, but in plain view of the horse.
    Other helpers quickly open up umbrellas right next to the horse rider combination.
    The horse rider combination has to ride across a large tarp on the ground.
    A helper has to pull a large bag with rattling metal objects alongside the horse.
    The horse rider combination has to ride across a small wooden bridge.
    After dismounting, the rider has to spray his horse with water out of a spray bottle
    I wonder how many Olympic riders could do this on their Olympic mounts. Perhaps they should be made to re-qualify for third level, also.



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2007
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canyonoak View Post
    << The only thing which we have added in Holland is that you have to mount from the ground. >>


    Well, that's the dealbreaker that stops me from moving to Holland!

    LOL
    But heeeeee, you know we have a lot of well educated gentlemen in Holland who all have sufficient scores to help you to make the big jump.



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 1999
    Location
    South Coast Plaza
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    20,491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canyonoak View Post
    << The only thing which we have added in Holland is that you have to mount from the ground. >>


    Well, that's the dealbreaker that stops me from moving to Holland!

    LOL
    Well, see, you've got to be creative. Mount while on a steep hill. In the 11 years I had Willem, that was the only time I could mount him from the ground. So do this part of your Trail Horse Test on a reeeeeeeeeally steep berm.
    EDDIE WOULD GO



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2007
    Posts
    2,094

    Default But my dear Coreene

    Quote Originally Posted by Coreene View Post
    Well, see, you've got to be creative. Mount while on a steep hill. In the 11 years I had Willem, that was the only time I could mount him from the ground. So do this part of your Trail Horse Test on a reeeeeeeeeally steep berm.
    But Coreene you know that we don't have hills in Holland. That's why it is called "the flat lands", but also for you I will make sure we have a couple of hills created along your path.



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 1999
    Location
    South Coast Plaza
    Posts
    20,491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freestyle2music View Post
    But Coreene you know that we don't have hills in Holland. That's why it is called "the flat lands", but also for you I will make sure we have a couple of hills created along your path.
    I know, I know! Amersfoort (our home town) boasts the Berg Hotel. On what we would call a tiny hill, but to them is Everest.

    Theo, I will be there in late April. Can't wait.
    EDDIE WOULD GO



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    Are people allowed to run the stirrup down a few holes for the test? I can mount from the ground on shorter horses, or vault on if the horse is moving, but getting my foot high enough on a 17-hand horse when I'm wearing tall boots is pretty challenging.

    Anyway, here is the letter I sent:
    Dear USEF Board of Directors,
    Please deny Rule Chage 275-07. It is unnecessary, since judges can already handle abusive riders by disqualifying them. If they are merely bad riders rather than abusive, the judge can give them a rider score of 1 or 2, and emphasise that the rider is not ready for the level in the comments. The rule change doesn't address the problem directly at all. If the proposed criteria were for 2 or 3 scores of 6 or 7 for rider at the highest test of the previous level, that would be more germane, and reasonable.

    The rule change will unecessarily make the show organizer's job more difficult. It will also limit advancement for competent riders who are in areas with few shows.
    I wrote to the USEF Dressage Committee previously, and while Janet Foy-Brown and Hilda Gurney kindly responded, I would not have been aware of the proposed changes to the criteria if I were not active on a couple of equine-related sites. I hope that the membership will be kept informed on this very important ruling if you pass it in spite of the opposition to it from many USEF and USDF members.
    Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
    Location
    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,541

    Default

    Here's a copy of my letter:

    To the USEF Board of Directors:

    I am a 52 year old long time member of USEF, USDF, USCTA and various GMOs. I have competed in dressage, eventing, show jumping and various breed disciplines during my long life. I have acted as scribe, volunteer, eventing jump judge, and every other darned thing you can think of. I am also a breeder of warmbloods that have been quite successful in dressage and show jumping. Oh, and I'm an attorney, so have a decent amount of education.

    I now train riders in dressage to third level, giving them GOOD basics and have audited the "L" judge program and am working on my Dressage Sporthorse Breeders Judge's license, having attended several of the seminars from members of this BOD.

    I write to say that while I DO understand the desire of some of the DC members to have some qualification standards to move up the levels in dressage, I think the current rule is unworkable, will be prohibitively expensive, is elitist and will drive many people away from the sport.

    Besides, there is already a VERY simple method of making it known when a rider is not qualified: the rider collective score -- however, our judges seem to be unwilling to use it.

    If our judges would actually UTILIZE the full range of scores and punish bad riding, the issue would be resolved with no additional cost to USEF or the competitors. Would this keep bad riders out of the upper levels? Not as well as qualifying scores, but it would certainly go a long way towards educating the riders as to their actual riding ability (or maybe give them a "lightbulb moment" that, perhaps, they need to find a better trainer).

    But even the proposed rule will not keep out the determined bad rider who will buy/lease an expensive moving horse that will receive good enough gait scores to overcome the "5" that the judges seem to think is the lowest rider score they should give. The only ones who'll actually be affected are those riders who cannot afford to buy their way into the upper levels.

    This is the United States of America. We don't punish our citizens who are not wealthy -- at least we should not.

    Please do not pass this proposal. It will not be good for the sport. The unintended results will be very bad.


    Rebecca Pennington
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 1999
    Location
    South Coast Plaza
    Posts
    20,491

    Default

    Sonesta, I love it!
    EDDIE WOULD GO



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    1,442

    Default

    Well, okay Coreene and Theo--stand up on a dike then.



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