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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2007
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    Timbucktwo
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    68

    Default Chasing points?

    Ok,
    I am just wondering how many will be moving up as soon as they can before 2009. Do you think God, I need to get to third before they pass this new rule? Talking with a group this week they are worried. What about you all.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2005
    Location
    The Big Mitt
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    1,714

    Default

    I would be but there's no chance unless I buy a new horse and if I did that, then there wouldn't be a need to chase points. Basically, I'm hosed, that's what I'm thinking. LOL.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2006
    Posts
    109

    Default

    i was planning on showing my ass off the next two years to either get the scores/points or my bronze. but i found out that my dad's medical condition will not improve, so i am planning on having a baby and what ever happens with our scores happens. plus i think the scores will come easier with more training and clinics, so i will hit the cheaper schooling shows to get my show nerves under control.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    I am thinking of going back to eventing. ;-)



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    190

    Default

    My goal has always been getting my bronze in the next couple of years even before the word of the new rule. I am a determained person, and the rule has made me realize I need to step up my game a bit at home to prepare for the show ring.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2007
    Location
    Timbucktwo
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Yes, I think a great deal of people will be going for that bronze. It is to bad that this new rule will make people move up to soon. Money I think would be better spent on lessons.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    The Bayou City
    Posts
    3,800

    Default

    I'll be switching back to H/J!!! Who needs stupid rules like this that just pound the horses into the ground
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,947

    Default

    I was going to wait till my baby grew up (not even under saddle yet) to go through and get all my bronze scores. So, that it could be something I did with her. At this point since I am riding a horse that is solid third, working on tempis to go fourth, I will go ahead and map out this show year to get the scores for bronze (Lord willing, and the creeks don't rise .

    I enjoy the journey of dressage to much to throw in the towel over this rule change, should it go through. But, I also want to plan accordingly so that I don't have to deal with the fall-out should the rule go through.
    ~ Kimberlee
    www.SpunkyDiva.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
    Location
    Between the Medina River and a hay field
    Posts
    9,894

    Default

    Im going to put on my flame suit here...... but,
    I dont understand why everyone is so upset about it.
    IF your showing 3rd level or below your horse should be very confirmed at the lower levels (which they are considering basic levels). If your 3rd level work is confirmed, then your BASIC level would SHOULD be confirmed. What is the big deal??? If your ready for 3rd, your 2nd and below should be fine??
    You need 20 total points people........ and only two rides at 2nd/4. If your not doing 2nd/4, you should not be doing 3rd anyway, IMO!



    I just dont understand all the negative on this. Its for the welfare of the poor horses more than anything. How many of us have went to shows to see 3rd and above "riders" doing these levels while totally watersking on the horses face, mouth gaping open, hallow backed, etc?? Why? Cuz they had the money to go and buy them a high level trained horse and THOUGHT they could just start showing at Med and Advanced level right then and there. Poor horse!

    Im ok with the change. Anyone who is secure with their riding abilities should be ok with the change. It does not makes sense for a rider to be upset with having to ride a basic level test IF they are truely trained through the levels CORRECTLY (key word there)!

    So, flame away..... But really..... If you cant ride a 2nd level test or below, you surely dont need to be riding a 3rd level test or above.
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    The Bayou City
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    3,800

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    ......
    I just dont understand all the negative on this. Its for the welfare of the poor horses more than anything. How many of us have went to shows to see 3rd and above "riders" doing these levels while totally watersking on the horses face, mouth gaping open, hallow backed, etc?? Why? Cuz they had the money to go and buy them a high level trained horse and THOUGHT they could just start showing at Med and Advanced level right then and there. Poor horse!

    Im ok with the change. Anyone who is secure with their riding abilities should be ok with the change. It does not makes sense for a rider to be upset with having to ride a basic level test IF they are truely trained through the levels CORRECTLY (key word there)!

    So, flame away..... But really..... If you cant ride a 2nd level test or below, you surely dont need to be riding a 3rd level test or above.
    I'm going to call total BS on this!!!! How does this benefit the horses when someone who can't ride up to the standard decides that pounding the horse into the ground for extra shows every year to try and get those scores is the best course of action???? This doesn't effect anyone that belongs there already, but really what is worse?....having a few people showing at 3rd level that maybe shouldn't be in a double (why does anyone care?) or having those people take their poor horses to 20+ shows a year trying to GET TO third?

    Besides....I've seen about a million lower level riders waterskiing on their horses' faces this year. I fail to see how that has any less impact than someone doing it at 3rd level.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2002
    Posts
    1,066

    Default

    I'll be pushing for our bronze.

    stf, read the other posts if you don't understand what has people so upset about this. In a nutshell, it's not about the ability to ride the lower tests, its about the necessity of riding MANY lower tests when they may not have many shows available, or would rather spend their money and time training, only to show occasionally. Not everyone lives to show, but still like to show occasionally for many different reasons. Also, the rule won't ensure that riders are qualified, it has nothing to do with how well a rider rides, just that they can achieve the required number of tests over 60%. No one knows if those 60%'s are made up of 6's and 7's or 4's and 8's.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
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    Between the Medina River and a hay field
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    9,894

    Default

    I'm going to call total BS on this!!!! How does this benefit the horses when someone who can't ride up to the standard decides that pounding the horse into the ground for extra shows every year to try and get those scores is the best course of action???? This doesn't effect anyone that belongs there already, but really what is worse?....having a few people showing at 3rd level that maybe shouldn't be in a double (why does anyone care?) or having those people take their poor horses to 20+ shows a year trying to GET TO third?

    They are only doing that nonsense to grandfather the new rules, which is not good either. Why cant everyone just show up the levels, at each level as needed. 20 points in total at the basic levels is not that much, mostly when all levels usually take a year to confirm on a horse. So the first two yrs of training and 1st level should get your 20p's as well as then the 2nd level work to move to 3rd.
    Im sorry, I just dont see the big deal and WHY those feel the need to try to grandfather the new rule. Just show the horse properly up the levels and they they will have the points. Simple, right?
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
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    Between the Medina River and a hay field
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    Default

    Besides....I've seen about a million lower level riders waterskiing on their horses' faces this year. I fail to see how that has any less impact than someone doing it at 3rd level
    PS - I agree with this too, but maybe the new rule change will STOP some of that. Maybe, just by chance it will confirm more people basics and better seats to stop ripping on their poor horses and actually having some light self carriage. Yeah, yeah, I guess we can all dream..... but maybe the new rule will promote that. At least Ms. IHaveToMuchMoney wont go out and buy a Grand Prix horse, even though she cant even sit the trot well yet and try to show PSG on the poor horse who is sadly being bounced, yanked and confused!
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
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    Between the Medina River and a hay field
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ja Da Dee View Post
    I'll be pushing for our bronze.

    stf, read the other posts if you don't understand what has people so upset about this. In a nutshell, it's not about the ability to ride the lower tests, its about the necessity of riding MANY lower tests when they may not have many shows available, or would rather spend their money and time training, only to show occasionally. Not everyone lives to show, but still like to show occasionally for many different reasons. Also, the rule won't ensure that riders are qualified, it has nothing to do with how well a rider rides, just that they can achieve the required number of tests over 60%. No one knows if those 60%'s are made up of 6's and 7's or 4's and 8's.

    I do understand this too, but I think that the USDF officials are trying to come up with a way to get more confirmed riders before moving up. I do agree, mostly for those, as myself who have to drive 3-5 hrs to even get to a show, but... I still see good into the new program.
    I think to many people are worried to much of grandfathering the rule and not thinking of getting their current working level confirmed. Just keep on as you are, get your points at the levels and move on. Each level plays into the the next, right? We need to have each peice of the levels before moving to the next, right? So I just dont see the big deal other than the travel part, but...... we would be there anyway showing. Maybe the USDF will think about letting and using scores from schooling shows that are scored by RATED JUDGES also play a part. Maybe they will let you turn in scores from "r" and "R" showing show judges for points? Just a thought??!
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
    Location
    Charles Town, WV
    Posts
    6,637

    Default

    Everybody who is whining about this seems to think this is a totally brand new concept that has never been tried before. When I was in Germany 25-30 years ago, everyone in Germany had to qualify in order to move up each level, and once you had qualified you couldn't move back down just to get ribbons.
    Who needs stupid rules like this that just pound the horses into the ground
    Try lessons and training instead of pounding the poor beasts into the ground.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2003
    Location
    northern California
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Everybody who is whining about this seems to think this is a totally brand new concept that has never been tried before. When I was in Germany 25-30 years ago, everyone in Germany had to qualify in order to move up each level, and once you had qualified you couldn't move back down just to get ribbons. Try lessons and training instead of pounding the poor beasts into the ground.
    This is NOT Germany
    Hoppe, Hoppe, Reiter...
    Wenn er faellt dann schreit er...

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    forward is like love - you can never have enough



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2003
    Location
    Charles Town, WV
    Posts
    6,637

    Default

    And it is probably the reason why we can't beat them, or the NL, or some others in Internation dressage!!!!!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2007
    Location
    where its cold
    Posts
    834

    Default

    Well, I have ridden alot of "lower level" tests but very few USDF scores. Why? because I event. Why should I (or any other eventer) have to ride the lower levels at dressage shows just to get the necessary USDF scores to show at 3rd or 4th... I am not a newbie w/ a fancy smancy ol' schoolmaster horse that I can't ride... I just don't have a lot of USDF recognized show experience. That is MY problem w/ the rule. And it is the problem w/ the rule. It only allows/rewards only those who start at point A and move up. But there are ALOT of people who don't start at point A...



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2002
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Quote

    "20 points in total at the basic levels is not that much, mostly when all levels usually take a year to confirm on a horse. So the first two yrs of training and 1st level should get your 20p's as well as then the 2nd level work to move to 3rd.
    Im sorry, I just dont see the big deal and WHY those feel the need to try to grandfather the new rule. Just show the horse properly up the levels and they they will have the points. Simple, right?"

    The proposal is not set, just a floated idea at this point, but STF, I think you are interpreting the proposal to mean that points may be acquired at all lower levels? Not so, all points must accumulated be at 2nd level to move to 3rd.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2003
    Posts
    5,592

    Default

    In the proposal as it is currently being discussed, all the points have to be at 2nd level, STF. So no scores below 2nd level count.

    I think the concept is flawed.

    Personally, I'm reasonably secure in the thought that if things go according to plan (who am I kidding) I will be able to continue to progress at a decent rate, and should be able to fly under the radar of this particular rule, if I push it this coming show season fairly hard. I want to qualify for regionals at First level, and get a couple of second level tests under my belt, so I can focus on second level next year and get the scores I need to be able to move up at the end of next year and then get my bronze before I'm 50. (Something will of course happen to screw up this Utopian plan, but a girl's got to dream, hasn't she?)

    I have a nice horse--competent, safe, good mover, not going to the Olympics, but neither am I--and we are working hard with a good trainer.

    BUT, our recognized show season starts in June. We have around 5 local recognized shows, which I have always thought was pretty darned good going for the middle of nowhere. Our show season ends at the end of August. I work full time, and it is hard to take time off the trek off to shows in Colorado, for instance, so it's going to be really tough to actually get enough shows in at 2nd level to have a chance of qualifying in one year.. If I lived in CA and had a long show season, it would be easy. But rather a lot of the rest of the country isn't like that.

    As far as being in the interests of the horse, I don't think that has been thought through very carefully. The people (or class of people) who are now cranking on their double bridles at third are going to be the same ones that will drag their poor horse round 20 shows to get the points, STILL riding incorrectly. Because they don't know any better. They are having smoke blown at them by bad trainers with whom they have overly dependent relationships who give them a load of bullshit about politics and/or breed bias when they get rotten scores, rather than taking a hard look at what they are doing.

    Let's face it, there are a lot of people out there who apparently never look in a mirror, why will they be self-examining about their riding?

    If the PTB want to set a criterion for moving up, which I actually have no problem with them doing, then why not make it something that is difficult, such as two scores over 65% at the 2nd level test 4, but is actually attainable by an appropriately trained rider/horse in one or two shows? That would cut out most people's complaints and get the job done.

    I'm wondering how huge those 2nd level classes are going to get over the next few years, too. Full of people who should be riding first but are chasing their points. Pity the poor judges!



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