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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2003
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    Question What Makes a Good Shoeing Job Good & Vice Versa?

    So I know the basics. I can tell when something looks terrible (heels in the dirt, toe really long, shoes look too small, etc.) but have a hard time making other distinctions. What separates a decent shoeing job from a great one? What are things you really WANT to see? What would make you run from a farrier? I also need to be educated about proper angles. You hear people talking all the time about angles and I'd really like to learn what kind of angles complement different types of conformation, what is bad, what is good, and so on. Would anyone care to enlighten me? I would also love pictures with explanations. Or if you know of any good sources where I could read up on this kind of thing, please direct me to them! Thanks.



  2. #2
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    Mar. 23, 2005
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    Default

    The number one thing that makes a good shoeing job is a good underlying trim (I'm sure the Resident Hoof People will post plenty of pics, so I'm not going to try to describe it!).

    Next is the ability (and desire...) to really shape the shoe to fit the horse in question, even if it takes a few tries. This (along with an appropriate trim) is what keeps shoes on (and horses sound).

    Also, in the pet peeve category - when you run your hand over the hoof at the end, the ends of the nails should be smooth, not sticking out or sharp. I hate it that some farriers don't pay attention to that (mine does ).
    Proud member of the EDRF



  3. #3
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    Jan. 5, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kementari View Post
    The number one thing that makes a good shoeing job is a good underlying trim ...
    This hits the nail on the head, so to speak. Now, you will get some disagreement about what the right trim is, although pretty much anyone will tell you that long toe, underrun heel is not healthy (however, I am astounded at how many horses I see in this state). I'll give you a little info-- do you have some time to read?

    There is a good tutorial here: http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/natb...uidelines.html
    There is a section on recognizing healthy and distorted hoof form.

    The above site is a shoes-and-barefoot site; the following sites are barefoot only but have excellent information on healthy hoof form:
    www.ironfreehoof.com
    www.barefoothorse.com
    www.barefoottrim.com
    www.clickandtrim.com

    Finally, you can look at pics of my own horse's feet, before and after decent trimming (I need to update w/ more recent pics): http://cookiepony.googlepages.com/la...tifulhooves%21



  4. #4
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    A great shoeing job is only great because of the trim underneath it, and the horse's husbandry. And the most signifigant problem with a great shoeing job is that the hoof is constantly growing and changing from day to day, and what was great a week ago might not be so great today. Hooves are dynamic - shoes are static.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2006
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    Stockbridge, Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    A great shoeing job is only great because of the trim underneath it, and the horse's husbandry. And the most signifigant problem with a great shoeing job is that the hoof is constantly growing and changing from day to day, and what was great a week ago might not be so great today. Hooves are dynamic - shoes are static.
    I agree that a great trim is essential to a good shoeing job, but not that a shoeing job is ONLY great because of the trim.

    Of course it's possible to trim foot perfectly, then apply an ill fitting shoe with poor nailing/finishing.

    I'd like to think that if the practioner were capable of the perfect trim, then s/he'd be unlikely to perform a crappy shoeing, but it is possible in theory.
    I recognized with despair that I was about to be compelled to buy a horse ~
    Edith Somerville and "Martin Ross"

    "Momma" to Tiempo, Tucker and Puff, RIP my beautiful Norman 8/2012



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2006
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    Stockbridge, Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookiePony View Post
    This hits the nail on the head, so to speak. Now, you will get some disagreement about what the right trim is, although pretty much anyone will tell you that long toe, underrun heel is not healthy (however, I am astounded at how many horses I see in this state). I'll give you a little info-- do you have some time to read?

    There is a good tutorial here: http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/natb...uidelines.html
    There is a section on recognizing healthy and distorted hoof form.

    The above site is a shoes-and-barefoot site; the following sites are barefoot only but have excellent information on healthy hoof form:
    www.ironfreehoof.com
    www.barefoothorse.com
    www.barefoottrim.com
    www.clickandtrim.com

    Finally, you can look at pics of my own horse's feet, before and after decent trimming (I need to update w/ more recent pics): http://cookiepony.googlepages.com/la...tifulhooves%21
    CookiePony, there are some nice trim examples in your list, but I'm horrified by the trimming in your 4th barefoot site listing.

    This is some of the worst work I've ever seen...

    http://www.clickandtrim.com/hooves1.htm

    Sorry, but it just...is.
    I recognized with despair that I was about to be compelled to buy a horse ~
    Edith Somerville and "Martin Ross"

    "Momma" to Tiempo, Tucker and Puff, RIP my beautiful Norman 8/2012



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2007
    Location
    Comanche, TX
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    Staish in gray, deletia

    What separates a decent shoeing job from a great one?

    In technical terms, complete, as opposed to partial, biomechanical efficiency.

    What are things you really WANT to see? What would make you run from a farrier? I also need to be educated about proper angles. You hear people talking all the time about angles and I'd really like to learn what kind of angles complement different types of conformation, what is bad, what is good, and so on. Would anyone care to enlighten me? I would also love pictures with explanations. Or if you know of any good sources where I could read up on this kind of thing, please direct me to them!

    For an overview of farriery, please see the certification guides at <http://americanfarriers.org>. Bear in mind that there is no single method of trimming or farriery that works on every horse, every time; furthermore, the more athleticism required for an activity, the greater the stress on the horse, and the greater the importance of a farrier's correctly assessing and addressing the horse's needs.

    There's a helluva gap between trimming a pasture ornament and shoeing a puissance horse.

    The most difficult thing about farriery is not addressing the horse's needs, it's assessing those needs. After a competent farrier gets one figured out, it's just connect the dots. On the other hand, a horse's needs can change due to factors beyond a farriers control - which means farriers become complacent at their peril.
    Tom Stovall, CJF
    No me preguntes cualquier preguntas, yo te diré no mentiras.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiempo View Post
    This is some of the worst work I've ever seen...

    http://www.clickandtrim.com/hooves1.htm

    Sorry, but it just...is.
    Would you care to point out exactly what is so bad about it? Did you realize that the top photos are of a partially trimmed foot?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
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    Jan. 5, 2006
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    Tiempo, I have the same questions as JB.

    There are both before and after pics on that page-- sometimes it's confusing which is which.



  10. #10
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    Mar. 16, 2006
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    Larkspur, Colo.
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    Here's an example of a shoeing job that served the horse quite well.

    http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...Des-fronts.jpg

    These are Natural Balance aluminums with flat NB pads. Initially the shoe/pad combo were ground back to create the rocker. The shoes continued to wear throughout the shoeing cycle, providing excellent breakover. I believe they lasted two cycles, and this was taken after the first reset:

    http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...k/LFSept07.jpg

    Note the horse had his shoes and pads pulled six weeks ago and is "winter pasture" sound with good sole thickness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    Hooves are dynamic - shoes are static.
    Wrong. See above.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2007
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    116

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    This is a great thread. My farrier happened to comment to me last shoeing that my horse's one foot always seems to 'grow' unbalanced/uneven every cycle. Does that somehow indicate that the 'underlying' trim was not as correct as it could be or is this normal for some horses? Would the specific nature of the uneveness/balance issue offer some clue to my horse's... way of traveling or conformation or...? Does this make any sense!?!



  12. #12
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    Feb. 8, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stovall View Post

    There's a helluva gap between trimming a pasture ornament and shoeing a puissance horse.

    .
    This is something similar that my friend's husband, who is a farrier, says and it bugs me. Why wouldn't you do the same "good job" on a show horse versus a pasture horse. They both need a great trim and to be balanced, what would be so different about the trim?? I understand that the shoeing package will most likely be different, but discounting the fact that one will be shod and the other will probably be barefoot, why shouldn't the trim be of equal quality??



  13. #13
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    Jul. 23, 2006
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    Stockbridge, Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookiePony View Post
    Tiempo, I have the same questions as JB.

    There are both before and after pics on that page-- sometimes it's confusing which is which.
    I'd be happy to, but unfortunatley it will have to wait until I'm back visiting friends in town. Here at home almost all of the pictures won't load
    I recognized with despair that I was about to be compelled to buy a horse ~
    Edith Somerville and "Martin Ross"

    "Momma" to Tiempo, Tucker and Puff, RIP my beautiful Norman 8/2012



  14. #14
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    Dec. 27, 1999
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    Midland, NC, USA
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    Larkspur.... lovely shoeing job there, IMHO. Nice balance, great heel support. If more farriers would do that there would be fewer horse owners getting desperate and going barefoot!

    Cookiepony, the 'before' pix of your horse made me cringe, you were very right to go elsewhere. He looks much better afterwards, but I would note the same effect could have been produced by a competent farrier.

    The fourth site made me wince along with Tiempo, very few of the 'after' trims showed any appreciable difference in the angle of the hoof (which were mostly bad), just rasped off the flares and dubbed back the toes/mustang-rolled the wall. I know some people don't believe in trimming sole, which would be necessary to reduce toe length, but if your horse does not wander the Sierra Nevada 24/7, and you cut down the bar and heel to try to make it look like a mustang hoof, why not do the rest? I could post numerous pix of horses I trim, NONE of which would require the notation "sound x months of the year" and most of whom jump 3-4' on a regular basis. Maybe I should!

    Jennifer



  15. #15
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post
    This is something similar that my friend's husband, who is a farrier, says and it bugs me. Why wouldn't you do the same "good job" on a show horse versus a pasture horse. They both need a great trim and to be balanced, what would be so different about the trim?? I understand that the shoeing package will most likely be different, but discounting the fact that one will be shod and the other will probably be barefoot, why shouldn't the trim be of equal quality??
    Good question!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
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    1,238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post
    This is something similar that my friend's husband, who is a farrier, says and it bugs me. Why wouldn't you do the same "good job" on a show horse versus a pasture horse. They both need a great trim and to be balanced, what would be so different about the trim?? I understand that the shoeing package will most likely be different, but discounting the fact that one will be shod and the other will probably be barefoot, why shouldn't the trim be of equal quality??
    I think you might be taking Mr Stovall a little out of context there and he'll certainly be able to answer your question.

    But yes, every horse should get the best job any of us can give it regardless of where it lives or what it does.
    George



  17. #17
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    Jan. 5, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    Cookiepony, the 'before' pix of your horse made me cringe, you were very right to go elsewhere. He looks much better afterwards, but I would note the same effect could have been produced by a competent farrier.
    Thanks... BTW, I do have a competent farrier who trims him, but she stopped shoeing last year and now just does barefoot. I have not seen any shoeing jobs in my area that are competent, so I'll have to look around quite a bit if I need to get my horse shod so I can stud him.

    I agree, Larkspur's horse's feet look just great.

    And thanks for your thoughts on the 4th site.



  18. #18
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    Here's an example of a shoeing job that served the horse quite well.

    http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...Des-fronts.jpg

    These are Natural Balance aluminums with flat NB pads. Initially the shoe/pad combo were ground back to create the rocker. The shoes continued to wear throughout the shoeing cycle, providing excellent breakover. I believe they lasted two cycles, and this was taken after the first reset:

    http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...k/LFSept07.jpg

    Note the horse had his shoes and pads pulled six weeks ago and is "winter pasture" sound with good sole thickness.




    Wrong. See above.
    Yeah, alrighty then. You have your opinion. I have mine. There's a helluva lot more to how the shoe interacts with the foot then just the toe wearing back.



  19. #19
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    Nov. 5, 2007
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    Pennsylvania
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookiePony View Post
    I have not seen any shoeing jobs in my area that are competent,
    Answer to that problem is state licensing. Horse owners must unite and push for it.
    George



  20. #20
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    Mar. 16, 2006
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    Larkspur, Colo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    Yeah, alrighty then. You have your opinion. I have mine. There's a helluva lot more to how the shoe interacts with the foot then just the toe wearing back.
    Gee whiz -- really??? Does this mean the frog support pads and hoof packing were there for a reason.



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