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  1. #21
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    Jun. 14, 2007
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    This is great stuff..
    NOW, the question I've been wanting to ask - which side of the neck? Someplace along the line I was "told" that the off side (right hand side) of the neck was "correct". Nowadays, I'm seeing superb plaiting on either side - both hunters and dressage horses.

    Is there (or was there ever) a "correct " side to braid (or Plait) on?

    Oh, and what about leaving the gorgeous studly foretop unfettered on a braided stallion?
    Homesick Angels Farm
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  2. #22
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    Again, this is just how I have always been taught...but...I was alway taught to braid on the right (off side) of the horse. I believe I was told why eons ago, but I can't seem to recall.

    As for the stallion forelock question, I have NO clue about any rule regarding it being "unfettered."



  3. #23
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    Plagiarism? Not quite.

    And while our traditions do borrow many features of the British version (particulary the dress which is virtually identical but not in many other notable respects), one could hardly claim that it is practiced solely as the British version. I'm sure the influences on American fox hunters from Australia, Canada, France, India, the Republic of Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, and Russia might feel differently. After practicing it for 357 years, some elements are distinctly American.

    Doesn't the braiding on the right tradition go back to typical sword position (left)?



  4. #24
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    I know that western horses have left manes so they won't interfere with the rope - given that most people are right-handed.

    We mount from the left side b/c our swords used to hang off the left hip (so we could draw with our right hand) and it's hard to swing the sword over the horse.

    I don't know what left handed cowboys and knights used to do....

    The mane on the right side doesn't really make sense for the sword-yielding b/c even though you would carry your sword on the left, you still use your right hand to hold it.



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Plagiarism? Not quite.

    And while our traditions do borrow many features of the British version (particulary the dress which is virtually identical but not in many other notable respects), one could hardly claim that it is practiced solely as the British version. I'm sure the influences on American fox hunters from Australia, Canada, France, India, the Republic of Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, and Russia might feel differently. After practicing it for 357 years, some elements are distinctly American.

    Doesn't the braiding on the right tradition go back to typical sword position (left)?
    Would you mind expounding on this theory?



  6. #26
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    Jun. 21, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    Would you mind expounding on this theory?
    What theory? The sword statement? If that, then it is as Hilary described. I was thinking that perhaps keeping the mane braided on the right kept it from interfering with the reach over to the left to draw the sword. Hilary could be just as correct though....and since I have dyslexia and routinely fail at distinguishing right and left, I mount from which ever side is handy at the moment and roach my horse's mane.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    And while our traditions do borrow many features of the British version (particulary the dress which is virtually identical but not in many other notable respects), one could hardly claim that it is practiced solely as the British version. I'm sure the influences on American fox hunters from Australia, Canada, France, India, the Republic of Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, and Russia might feel differently. After practicing it for 357 years, some elements are distinctly American.
    No - the one above.

    " Doesn't the braiding on the right tradition go back to typical sword position (left)?"
    That was a question.



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    No - the one above.
    Okay - you'll have to type slowly for me because I'm not getting your question. What I typed above the sword question are facts, not personal theories.



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Okay - you'll have to type slowly for me because I'm not getting your question. What I typed above the sword question are facts, not personal theories.
    Prove it!



  10. #30
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    Jun. 21, 2001
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    Again, prove what?? Which part? Really, nothing there is that complicated.

    Now I'm starting to think I'm the one that needs to type slowly...

    (PS - I'm off to take my 2 year old trick or treating so we'll have to take this up another time). Happy Halloween!



  11. #31
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    Enlighten me as to these "facts" you mentioned.
    I'd love to know more.
    What are the influences from Australia, Canada, France, India, the Republic of Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, and Russia ?
    Surely, if it's not that complicated, you should have no problem!



  12. #32
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    Oct. 1, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    However Fox Hunting of the kind now enjoyed here did come from only one place. To qualify as a tradition, the method would have to have been carried out as the original without change for several generations. But you're "doing your own thing"! I'm not sure about the habit of taking somebody else's traditions, changing them, and then claiming them as your own. Smells a lot like plagiarism to me!

    Well, now, surely you know that the fine 'British' traditions including much of the hunting language are Norman in origin...courtesy of Gillaume...



  13. #33
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    Most of British history/language has been tangled up with the French in one way or another (it seems that if we weren't kicking their asses we were saving them!), but I would like further enlightenment on such a wide ranging statement of "facts".



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    Most of British history/language has been tangled up with the French in one way or another (it seems that if we weren't kicking their asses we were saving them!), but I would like further enlightenment on such a wide ranging statement of "facts".
    Then I would recommend to you Roger Longrigg's 'The History of Foxhunting.' The author is British so may perhaps have more credibility.

    Two quick examples:

    Since French became the language of the courts after 1066, it also became the language of hunting, hence terms such as 'leu in' and 'tally ho' are corruptions of Norman/French.

    Hounds- fundamentally descend from French hounds.

    Now, you could argue the hunting of fox was made respectable in Britain; prior to the 18th century it was typically considered to be a low form of sport in comparison to stag hunting but did eventually catch on.

    Back to the braiding and mane-on-which-side. I know of no reason for the 'tradition' of mane on the right. I've always just braided my horses' manes on the side they grow on. In the current inventory, the 'western' horse's mane falls naturally on the right, the warmblood, on the left.

    I too learned the folklore of odd for geldings, even for mares, and I have always given myself the liberty to count the forelock, or not. Because I just braid madly away (sorry, that's the term I am accustomed to!) typically ending with 13ish to 15ish. If I've got an even number on my gelding's neck, sorry, not gonna redo. I'll just count the forelock if anybody asks.

    So far using the above approach, neither lightning nor fashion police have struck me down.



  15. #35
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    Feb. 16, 2003
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    My teaching was to always have the mane on the right side of neck, Western horse or English horse, Driving horse, all disciplines. Tradition was developed from the Military system, training of mounted men, requirements of keeping troops of horses so they are alike.

    Soldiers are supposed to all be alike. Systems are developed to create uniformity in methods of doing everything. They mount from the left side to avoid tangling leg in sword hung on left hip. Mounting from the left means left hand on neck, holding reins, while right hand adjusts stirrup for foot. Mane on left side will be a problem in tangling hands and reins during mounting. Tangles mean soldier can lose control of animal while unsteady in mounting.

    These soldiers were trained in doing things alike, by men trained the same way. Habits, training of years went with these ex-soldiers when they left the military. Kept grooming manes onto right side of neck so they didn't tangle with reins in mounting. Kept mounting on left side of horse. Trained their children in the same methods.

    In the early West, up to the 1960's, many horse manes were kept roached off, hogged necks for Eastern folks. No mane made roping, rein tangling impossible. Most Western horses had fairly short tails, cut off or pulled so they didn't get tangled in things. Check out some old photos. Short manes and tails also kept chances of lice down. One lousy horse could easily spread lice thru the herd. This roaching was also seen in the Western Calvary units, no manes at all. Sure reduced care time in grooming of horses too.

    After the 1960's, Western Halter horses, show horses, got more popular, were traveling in trailers to more shows, rodeos. A couple winners had manes, so the style was copied, got more common. With horses often doing multiple jobs, short manes were trained right again, to keep it out of the way when mounting. Old Horse Care Books I read, said to train the mane right, so this was the accepted practice, wide spread and promoted.

    Traditionally, driven carriage horses were never braided in daily use, neither manes nor tails. Modern CDE Competition drivers braid manes, but it is a modern choice. Neither required or encouraged. Looks nice, same reason other English disciplines braid their animals. Drafts do braid for their competitions, emphasizes the heavy, muscular neck, power of horse.

    Can you do some of the more obscure braids, Hackney braids, Cleveland Bay braids? Used only on these breeds, though they are attractive styles.



  16. #36
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    Nov. 10, 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    I would love to see examples of braiding/plaiting the longer manes. My horses are on 24/7 turnout and thus I hate to have a mane supershort in the winter. Irrational I know since one side of the neck must get cold.

    One of my horses is very "saddleseat" and the longer mane fits how he moves. I have braided him in a long running french braid down the crest but am not sure if I did it right.

    Sites of interest??

    Thanks!
    Live life to the fullest-ride a standardbred!!!



  17. #37
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    I would appreciate enlightenment on the influences from Australia, Canada, India, Italy, New Zealand, and Russia. I'm sure you could debate the involvement of France until the cows come home. The two countries were linked for a long time and you'd have a hard time sorting out who influenced whom.

    But - just for grins;
    French Military History in a Nutshell (American version)
    Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
    Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare - "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."
    Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians.
    Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.
    Thirty Years' War: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
    War of Devolution: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
    The Dutch War: Tied.
    War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War: Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power.
    War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.
    American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting".
    French Revolution: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.
    The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
    The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
    WWI: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
    WWII: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
    War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu.
    Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos.
    War on Terrorism: France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.
    Last edited by Equibrit; Nov. 1, 2007 at 08:26 AM.



  18. #38
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    May. 25, 2003
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    Talking I'll take a stab at it!

    Equibrit! Take a deep breath!! Calm down!! Smile!!!
    I'm gonna take a stab at your inquiry! Done tongue-in-cheek!!

    Influences to foxhunting from the following foreign countries:

    From Australia? = Pretty good wines lately for tailgates - I'm thinkin' their whites are whonderful!

    From Canada? - well can ANYONE not deny their weather influences our US sport?!! Those Alberta Clippers come sailing over the US regularly in the winter! These artic cold fronts drop down into say...Illinois? and bugger up the footing? I like to blame Canada for our BAD weather!!
    And those wonder PMU's we're all hunting these days! Love them!

    From India? - polo wraps for transporting our precious hunters in the trailer to avoid boo-boos? (hard to finda polo relationship but I'm trying!)
    Oh! How about cheap leather tack to hunt in on muddy days? Yeah that's it!!!

    From Italy? - round here those Italian Leather boots are hot, expensive and sought after.....altho' I've always suspected it's American hides sent there.....

    From New Zealand? - kiwi? for fruit platters? for tailgates/breakfasts?! As a place for US foxhunters to go in off season, hunt, write about it and make us all hunting envious in the heat of June?!!! Oh and to tell us about jumping wire and how to do it properly?!!

    From Russia! - For caviar of course! For tailgates/breakfasts!! For Vodka in our mimosas?!! For Centennial Award winning foxhunters!! (Yea! Spitnik!) Isn't he a Russian Warmblood!??!!

    From Ireland?! - too numerous to list!! #1-the worlds handsomest huntsmen!! Irish horses for us to ride and lust after!! And accent that is sometimes hard to understand but a joie de vivre we could all live by!

    And our final influences? Most of our horse breeds are "foreign" bred at some point back yonder! Ditto our hounds! And ourselves! All immigrant legacies! Wooooohoooo! Ain't we the lucky ones!
    (Wateryglen sports Irish/French/Canadian blood very recently in her past.
    THAT explains my wine-lovin' joie-de-vivre love of cold weather and half draft canadian imports!) hmmmmmm....

    There now, Equibrit!, feeling better!!???



  19. #39
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    Sep. 28, 2003
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    Default Thanks to Equibrit

    I had a good laugh this morning.
    -Painted Wings

    Set youself apart from the crowd, ride a paint horse, you're sure to be spotted



  20. #40
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    I cannot own up to being at all out of sorts!



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