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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2004
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    385

    Default Can someone tell me about the Oldenburg NA?

    Here is why I am curious.

    I went to an Oldenburg NA, ISR inspection recently and could not help but notice that ALL the horses presented for inspection passed, even when the guy doing the inspection had negative things to say about the horse (sometimes very negative).

    So, I was talking to someone this weekend and she told me something very interesting and I was wondering if it were true at all.

    Apparently there did not used to be an Oldenburg NA, only the Verband. Then, the guy in the US who was running the Verband inspections was passing everything and the Verband got on him about passing everything/too many horses so he either quit or got fired and then established his own registry called the Oldenburg NA. Apparently this was the inspection I saw and I wonder if that was the same guy at the inspection. The way it was presented to me it sounded like it was more about collecting a fee for brand and even a type of "copywright infringement" on the Oldenburg name.

    Is any of this true?

    Thanks



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2005
    Posts
    2,610

    Default

    Regardless of politics, most registries brand and record all foals born from approved parents, regardless of quality. It seems that you were watching the foals?

    I have been to Old/NA inspections and they do not pass everything presented to them for approval. Many mares and stallions are not accepted. The Old/NA is a valid, reputable registry. They just aren't affiliated with a German counterpart.

    If you want to know about the politics, do a search. It has been hashed out here before.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    18,122

    Default

    I have found the Oldenburg NA very easy to deal with - e-mails are answered promptly. There are several levels of mare books, so a lot of mares fit somewhere unless they are "dogs".

    They have a huge list of approved stallions, inspections in a lot of places so some of us can actually get to one, and reputable breeders are affiliated with them, Hilltop Farm for one. The inspectors travel around so all the horses are assessed on a level playing field, and compared to the European standards. I'm happy with them.

    There is the old merry-go-round of taking your mare to lots of inspections - too expensive and therein lies the rub.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2003
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    2,794

    Default

    I don't know why in the world the guy running it wanted/needed/insisted upon calling his American registry "oldenburg" and it is true that he rushed out and trademarked the Oldenburg's brand. Then legally prevented the german oldenburg folks from using it like they have for hundreds of years.

    It would have been much much better if he just built a top quality American warmblood & sporthorse registry - that is something we could all be proud of instead of making excuses and falling all over ourselves trying to justify what happened.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 18, 2000
    Location
    ~~~Virginia Horse Country~~~
    Posts
    6,855

    Default info link to registry website

    Procella, to avoid being swamped with misinformation I suggest you go to this link to learn more about the ISR/OLDNA registry:

    http://www.isroldenburg.org/index.ph...ut%us_registry

    Please note that Dr Christian Schacht has been the Breeding Director since 2006.
    http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2004
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Hi All,

    Thanks so much for the replies - you are all very helpful. I went to the website and took a look and it looks good. I am also glad to hear that they don't always pass everything!!!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    The Bayou City
    Posts
    3,800

    Default

    I would just like to add that you were obviously given some very poor information from someone. I am glad you took the time to go to the Old NA website and find out what the registry is all about.

    My experience with them has been A+ so far. They have a lot of good programs for horses and good customer service to their members. I've definitely been to inspections where horses presented were turned down.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
    Location
    Between the Medina River and a hay field
    Posts
    9,894

    Default

    Make sure and understand the levels of approval too. One can be put into a mare book, but depending on what mare book, it may limit what they can and cant do in breedstock.
    www.spindletopfarm.net
    Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
    "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    New Minas, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,794

    Default

    I certainly have no complaint with the ISR Old. I can tell you of a personal incident which I had. I was travelling and photographing and had wanted to present my mare at the inspection but there was no time to organize it. The inspector happened to have a stay over after the inspection and I had said to someone that I really wanted to bring my mare so they asked him and he said he wouldn't mind dropping by the farm to do it considering I had been very much a part of the inspection all day. That was a rare and kind gesture and certainly not required. My little mare made main mare book and I was able to do it on the lawn.

    A unique experience. An act of kindness I shall not forget anyday soon.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
    Location
    Fauquier County, VA
    Posts
    10,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hocus Focus View Post
    I certainly have no complaint with the ISR Old. I can tell you of a personal incident which I had. I was travelling and photographing and had wanted to present my mare at the inspection but there was no time to organize it. The inspector happened to have a stay over after the inspection and I had said to someone that I really wanted to bring my mare so they asked him and he said he wouldn't mind dropping by the farm to do it considering I had been very much a part of the inspection all day. That was a rare and kind gesture and certainly not required. My little mare made main mare book and I was able to do it on the lawn.

    A unique experience. An act of kindness I shall not forget anyday soon.

    That is a really nice story. That is how registries should work.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2002
    Posts
    1,383

    Default

    My understanding was that the registry many years ago DID have the support of the German Oldenburg verband, which is why they did use the O crown brand. I used to own an ISR/Oldenburg gelding that was born and bred here, branded with the O crown brand, and he had "pink" papers that came directly from Germany. But he definitely was registered through the ISR/Oldenburg Registry and not the GOV. In fact, I don't thing the GOV even existed then.

    Then, yes, supposedly the Germans didn't like what the American branch were approving, fired the director and tryed to pull their brand, however that brand was already patented for use by the registry and they could not take it away. So they started their own branch, the GOV (Oldenburg Horse Breeder's Society). So I don't think the brand is being used illegally by the ISR/Oldenburg, as they originally had the support of the German branch.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2003
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    2,794

    Default

    No one said they were using the brand illegally.

    More sort of like this analogy: I have a car manufacturing company and I contract with Mercedes to build Mercedes cars in my plant in the U.S.. Then the Mercedes folks look over what I'm doing and don't like it - quality issues, whatever, and they sever the relationship with my plant and decide to build their own plant in the U.S. But, unknown to them, I've trademarked their Mercedes emblem. Then when the Mercedes folks build their own plant, I take them to court and say I own your symbol and you can't use it here in the U.S. and furthermore, I'm going to continue building cars MY way and I'm putting the Mercedes emblem on them. Then the flabbergasted Germans go to court not believing that something like that could happen and the U.S. court system upholds my trademark and allows me to build cars using the Mercedes emblem and prohibits them from using it. The rest of the world looks on in horror and sadly shakes their head.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2002
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,606

    Default

    In fact, I don't thing the GOV even existed then.
    The Oldenburg Verband has been around since at least the early 1920's. Maybe not with an arm in the US but they certainly existed.

    www.oldenburghorse.com

    The Oldenburg Verband (Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society) and the ISR.Old NA are not longer together although they were for a few years.
    I do not believe the ISR Old NA exists anywhere else but North America but oddly with its owner living in Germany. I would guess you could consider it an American Registry except in name.
    ~Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away...



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2003
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    2,794

    Default

    "I would guess you could consider it an American Registry except in name"

    Yes, it could have been an excellent, strong American warmblood registry but they had to go label it Oldenburg. So you can a Dutch mare, bred to a Holsteiner stallion taken and approved by the guy who owns the Oldna and "poof!" they are now "oldenburgs" for no other reason then he says so and he openly admits (it is on their website) that they have a different set of criteria then the German Oldenburgs. But, hey, this is America, why not?!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2002
    Posts
    1,383

    Default

    carosello, I meant that the US branch of the GOV didn't exist then (I think), sorry, I shouldn't have called it the GOV, I meant the Oldenburg Horse Breeder's Society.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2004
    Location
    Elizabethtown, KY
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    2,744

    Default

    So OldNA uses the O brand? And what do US GOV horses get branded with? It does seem very odd that they took the brand over.
    Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

    http://www.halcyon-hill.com



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buschkn View Post
    So OldNA uses the O brand? And what do US GOV horses get branded with? It does seem very odd that they took the brand over.
    They're not, I believe they microchip? I guess it's a lesson in capitalism.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 8, 2007
    Location
    almost the geographic center of North America
    Posts
    54

    Default

    I have had great experiences with the OLDNA the breeding director was the inspector at the one I presented at this year. He had a very nice comment that many of the horses over here were as good if not better than the ones in Germany. The registry is also very involved with the 100 day test here, which other registries participate in.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2002
    Location
    Midwest
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    3,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buschkn View Post
    So OldNA uses the O brand? And what do US GOV horses get branded with? It does seem very odd that they took the brand over.

    They are not allowed to use it in North American because it was trademarked to the ISR/Old na. We use microships but horses born in Germany are still branded.
    ~Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away...



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2003
    Location
    Monroe, WA
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    984

    Default

    Well, as the owner of a mare that got caught in the "middle of the mayhem", I can say it was a little bit frustrating. My mare (by breeding a Hanoverian/TB cross) has the GOV pink papers and the 'O' brand, and was issued a premium mare status in 1994. 10 years later, after a very successful showing career including a regional championship, she was retired due to injury and bred to a Hanoverian stallion who was only approved GOV. When I took her filly to the GOV inspection I was told I had to have the mare re-inspected, but they would not charge me the inspection fee. When I got there, not only were her scores night and day different from her previous scores, she was no longer eligible for a Premium mare (and even if she was, GOV requires a 7.5 for premium mare status, it was 7.0 with the combined GOV/OldNA), and effectively had her title taken from her, although she was at least still Main Mare Book. They had no record of her in their books, despite having pink papers in German, and seemed almost suspicious of their origin. They tried to charge me the inspection fee but I objected saying I was told over the phone I would not have to pay it. In any case, it didn't really matter, since I only brought her back to get the filly registered (who was a Premium foal). I tell my mare she is still Premium to me.



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