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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
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    1,377

    Default Pics of Coby van Balen teaching student how to lunge Power and Paint in rollkur

    I am posting this because of the extreme position that this pony's head is tied. It is very shocking, disguesting, and saddening to me to see a horse lunged like this!

    Here you'll find pictures of Coby van Balen teaching her 15-year old tudent, Angela Krooswijk how to lunge her horse in rollkur:

    http://www.syndicatlinaro.com/SLforu...=22151&t=22151

    From the Eurodressage site:

    "The rollkur debate hasn't died yet. The Swedish magazine Tidningen Ridsport has posted photos of the Dutch FEI Dressage Pony Power and Paint on the lunge line with draw reins setting his head in the rollkur/LDR position. The pictures were apparently taken at the 2007 European Pony Championships in Freudenberg, Germany, and show Power's rider, the 15-year old Angela Krooswijk, lunging her pony in the rollkur under the supervision of her trainer. On their website, Tidningen Ridsport has started a debate on these photos."

    http://www.tidningenridsport.se/defa...ticleStateID=2


    Poor pony!
    Last edited by Fantastic; Sep. 21, 2007 at 12:51 PM.



  2. #2
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    Nov. 23, 2005
    Location
    Folsom, CA
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    1,462

    Default

    Oh goody, another rollkur thread. We haven't had one in a while, so I guess it was time.
    Jennifer Walker
    Proud owner of Capt Han Solo+, Arabian stallion http://www.capthansolo.com
    Author, freelance writer http://www.authorjennwalker.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2002
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    1,289

    Default Wow!

    But surely, these photo's just represent a "Moment in Time"?

    Or have they been photo-shopped by someone with an "Agenda"?



  4. #4
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    Default

    I guess it was my turn to start one, seeing as I haven't responded to such posts before.



  5. #5
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    Apr. 8, 2004
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    Default

    A friend of mine who used to be a pro, including a stint in Europe, has recently come back to the dressage scene. She was in shock that this is being brought up as a new "issue" - she said it's been very common practice to lunge "in Rollkur", and has been forever.

    She didn't agree with it, but also pointed out that the European system is very much a "sink or swim" environment, and horses that can't hack it are culled from the program.
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."



  6. #6
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    Apr. 10, 2002
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    vancouver, wa
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    Default

    i can't for the life of me see what this is "training" the horse to do? is it somehow supposedly creating suppleness in the neck or what is the explanation?



  7. #7
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    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    319

    Default

    Without starting a huge debate, can someone explain what the intended purpose of the rollkur is?

    Apparently it's been brought up before and people do not seem thrilled about revisiting the subject. I assume it's one of those things people feel strongly for or against.....



  8. #8
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    Oct. 11, 2000
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    NC
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    Default

    I don't know, but I'll gladly take the pony!



  9. #9
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    Feb. 17, 2005
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    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by class View Post
    i can't for the life of me see what this is "training" the horse to do? is it somehow supposedly creating suppleness in the neck or what is the explanation?
    The purpose is to make the horse stretch over and use his back. I don't really need to shredded by the masses on this board, but will say that used to a less extreme degree I think its useful.



  10. #10
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    Oct. 25, 2001
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    Loudoun County, Virginia
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    838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex View Post
    horses that can't hack it are culled from the program.
    haha...I wonder where they're sent....
    Chase's Mom; RIP Dezi 1/99-2/09



  11. #11
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    Oct. 17, 2005
    Location
    IN
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    583

    Default

    I thought that Anky's rolkur method would not involve side reins put on in this manner, and that those who do are misunderstanding the method? Or at least that's what is said.

    In my mind, side reins used in this way have nothing to do with any "method", side reins are misused in a variety ways and in a variety of disciplines and have been before the rolkur debates began...and IMO it's just wrong, period, to use them in this way.



  12. #12
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    Feb. 25, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by class View Post
    i can't for the life of me see what this is "training" the horse to do? is it somehow supposedly creating suppleness in the neck or what is the explanation?
    I imagine that when you finally release the poor thing from this, he'll do anything you want him to do, he's so damn happy to be free. This looks to me like something intended to break the spirit, to force submission. I think there are a lot of other ways to get it, but there are always those who prefer a short cut.

    A lot of people don't see it that way though - as is bound to be obvious by the upcoming train wreck.
    Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon



  13. #13
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    Apr. 23, 1999
    Location
    Rosehill, TX
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    7,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantastic View Post
    ....Here you'll find pictures of Coby van Balen teaching her 15-year old tudent, Angela Krooswijk how to lunge her horse in rollkur:

    http://www.syndicatlinaro.com/SLforu...=22151&t=22151

    ......
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”



  14. #14
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    Jun. 20, 2006
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    Ft. Collins, CO
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    Default

    It's absolutely disgusting. The horrible strain on the neck of that poor pony, among other things. No way in hell can that be good for his body. And I'm pretty dang sure he can't see anything but the ground straight down. No wonder it's refered to as '' learned helplessness. '' Just plain cruel is the only word for it. Un friggin believable.
    I've never commented on the RK threads before, but INMHO, it needs to come up to educate people that are not aware of it and to keep shining a light on it untill it dies the death that it deserves.Not something to be proudly passing on to the yougins.



  15. #15
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    Nov. 1, 2005
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    The Prairie
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    Default

    Ack.
    I guess that I can SORT OF see the point of sometimes riding round and deep for brief periods, making sure the horse is tracking up behind, to try to effect some sort of deep stretch over the top line. Not sure how this would fit into that theory.

    These look like sliding reins and athough the pony just looks like he has buried his nose in his chest, I am going to presume that they expect him to become round as well as he brings his head down and that they plan to make sure he really steps up underneath himself. I don't think it is the intention that his head remain in that exact position.

    HOWEVER, how would they plan to provide a quick and appropriate release when pony gives them the stretching that they want? This looks counterproductive to me. But I am no FEI trainer, so what do I know?
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



  16. #16
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    May. 6, 2000
    Location
    Alameda, CA
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    226

    Default Oh

    That is SUCH a beautiful pony!



  17. #17
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    Jan. 23, 2004
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    Default

    Does anyone know how the pony and rider DID at the show?

    Cinder



  18. #18
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    Aug. 19, 2003
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    Citra, Fl, USA
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    Default

    I am a huge Power and Paint fan and I too am a bit disheartened to see these pics. I am nolt anti-Rolkur per say...but that does not look healthy;(
    Whispered Wish Weser-Ems: Breeding quality German Riding Ponies!
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  19. #19
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Thumbs up And thats teaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantastic View Post
    I am posting this because of the extreme position that this pony's head is tied. It is very shocking, disguesting, and saddening to me to see a horse lunged like this!

    Here you'll find pictures of Coby van Balen teaching her 15-year old tudent, Angela Krooswijk how to lunge her horse in rollkur:

    http://www.syndicatlinaro.com/SLforu...=22151&t=22151

    From the Eurodressage site:

    "The rollkur debate hasn't died yet. The Swedish magazine Tidningen Ridsport has posted photos of the Dutch FEI Dressage Pony Power and Paint on the lunge line with draw reins setting his head in the rollkur/LDR position. The pictures were apparently taken at the 2007 European Pony Championships in Freudenberg, Germany, and show Power's rider, the 15-year old Angela Krooswijk, lunging her pony in the rollkur under the supervision of her trainer. On their website, Tidningen Ridsport has started a debate on these photos."

    http://www.tidningenridsport.se/defa...ticleStateID=2


    Poor pony!
    that poor animal exactly what?? Seriously thats a disgrace. Anyone cranking sidereins or lunging in a gouge would think that extreme. Pathetic! It would appear the practice is alive and well and being passed on to the new young riders!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  20. #20
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hluing View Post
    I am a huge Power and Paint fan and I too am a bit disheartened to see these pics. I am nolt anti-Rolkur per say...but that does not look healthy;(
    What is his breeding?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



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