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  1. #21
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    Sep. 6, 1999
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    5,248

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    RR, YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT???
    Louisa with bad taxes? Land of the illiterate??
    See? Herein lies the problem with our rural counties.
    They don't cater to businesses such as tax breaks and infrastructure. I KNOW in Orange we don't have decent network lines to keep any kind of computer systems.
    Then these counties CAN'T get a real business in their towns. Therefore, no tax money coming in.
    So, tax the land. Tax the land, farmers can't afford to farm. Farmer sees land development deals going on, they perk their farm for 50 houses and voila, instant multi-millionaire for farmer. Land developer slaps up houses, carpetbaggers come in and buy up house.
    Still no taxes for county. Schools suck, police suck. House prices drop, unwanteds buy houses. Becomes another Manassas.
    Now, Rappahanock county did it right. They made for darn sure there were going to be no new tract housing. They set up laws like 1 house for every 5 acres or something. That's the way to do it.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2006
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    45

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    Quote Originally Posted by La Gringa View Post
    What people should be really worried about is the interest that is currently going on around Gilbert's Corner. Aldie and Gilbert's Corner are in the developers "sight line" right now.

    They are doing to be doing some significant road improvements in that area (4 traffic circles), that will lead to more and more stuff.

    The Salamander Inn is the least of our worries out there.
    Oh, those traffic circles are going to be tons of fun for horse trailers. Yay!!



  3. #23
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    Dec. 12, 2002
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    Virginia
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    hjer- Have you driven in a roundabout? They really aren't that bad and are quite popular in Europe. And they have been statistically show to help with high congestion when they take the place of a light. Gilbert's Corner is completely snarled so any improvement there would be nice.

    But LaGringa is completely right. There has been plans in the work for a new hospital off of rt. 50 which, if it does happen, will be the end to the rural community to Middleburg and beyond. There has been talk and some work on building another "Ashburn" right there at Gilbert's Corner that would greatly increase the congestion and there was (at the time I read the article) no real plans for road development. Things will come to a crawl from Leesburg to Haymarket, and Chantilly out through Middleburg.

    The Inn is really the least of the worries and not sure if may realize there is already development of a Ritz Carlton right past Gilbert's Corner on rt. 15. And it is a golf community not a horse one. I am not sure how many houses are in the works along with the Hotel but that is definitely coming and soon.

    I also believe that the originally proposed plans for the Inn was much bigger than what it ended up being. I am on the fence about the Inn as I am a capitalist at heart and do think it will help the stores in Middleburg and thusly the community. But, when livign there, was so tired of the weekend visitors.

    But, in my mind, I would rather have S. Johnson's plans than another Ashburn.

    And answering another poster, no this wouldn't impact S. Johnson's farm as it isn't on the same road but it isn't that far away from the town of Middleburg either.
    Grab mane and kick on!

    www.rocksolid-training.com



  4. #24
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    Nov. 22, 2005
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    Hermes
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    429

    Default Aunt Esther shakes her head in dismay

    Aunt Esther, national and international Purse Champion, has never been a fan of the nouveau riche.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2000
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    Heaven - Rappahannock County, Virginia
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    1,836

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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    Now, Rappahanock county did it right. They made for darn sure there were going to be no new tract housing. They set up laws like 1 house for every 5 acres or something. That's the way to do it.
    actually, unless the land has previously been subdivided it cannot be taken down to smaller than 25 acres per house and that division is also further restricted by slope - we have a neighbor with a house on 61 acres who looked at dividing his property further, and because of the slope ratio, it's essentially mountainside property, the county wouldn't let him do it.

    i'm not sure how long these restrictions are going to hold up to the pressures of big development, but i'm going to do my darnest to help them stay that way.

    oh and the salamander inn & spa might be nice, but i can guarantee you it won't be any Inn at Little Washington (the country's only 5 star inn & restaurant).
    * trying hard to be the person that my horses think i am



  6. #26
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    RR, YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT???
    Louisa with bad taxes? Land of the illiterate??
    We have 45 acres almost next to the power plant that will be our retirement farm. It's been two years away for the last 8 years or so.


    Maybe living in Spotsylvania I don't see their taxes as being to high. Dominion Power contributes quite a bit to the tax base. Add the absentee lake front owners to the tax base and it doesn't seem so bad for the rest of us.

    The clearcut timbering however drives me nuts.

    Unfortunately Louisa county is huge and they have one HS and maybe 2 Junior highs and 3 elementary schools. The kids can spend FOREVER on the bus. And that in itself can be an educational experience I think the schools are decent on the basics but you're not going to get French Immersion like in a more suburban community
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2006
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    45

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiedPiper View Post
    hjer- Have you driven in a roundabout? They really aren't that bad and are quite popular in Europe. And they have been statistically show to help with high congestion when they take the place of a light. Gilbert's Corner is completely snarled so any improvement there would be nice.

    But LaGringa is completely right. There has been plans in the work for a new hospital off of rt. 50 which, if it does happen, will be the end to the rural community to Middleburg and beyond. There has been talk and some work on building another "Ashburn" right there at Gilbert's Corner that would greatly increase the congestion and there was (at the time I read the article) no real plans for road development. Things will come to a crawl from Leesburg to Haymarket, and Chantilly out through Middleburg.

    .
    Yes, I have driven a roundabout before. But unlike Europe, other people aren't used to driving in them. And as we all know, drivers at straightforward roads with straightforward lights already drive in a way that isn't so horse trailer friendly. I agree that at any intersection in any town that experiences problems should be improved. I just hate that improvements that were needed to fix existing problems often just give a green light for more development, etc., and in a year or two, you're just back where you started. And for horse people trying to maneuver around all this, it's bound to leave more than a few people shaking their head wondering what the future holds for "horse country". And unfortunately, it seems like lately the future is bleak. Regarding the roundabout, I'm sure afer a while everyone will figure it out and all will be well. But the larger questions about development and how we take steps to preserve land in areas whose defining character centers on the horse and everything horse-related still loom large. Large enough for me to want to have a drink. Although on Friday afternoons, it doesn't take much to make me want that.



  8. #28
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiedPiper View Post
    There has been plans in the work for a new hospital off of rt. 50 which, if it does happen, will be the end to the rural community to Middleburg and beyond.
    Why would a hospital be a negative?

    45 min in a car with a broken ankle is the pits and an ambulance would have been longer
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 1999
    Posts
    17,599

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    This has been a 5-year "battle" that all sides have voiced their opinions on over and over. The final resolution is what it is and no one can say that all angles haven't been fully explored from traffic to visual impacts to use of water and discharge of waste.

    You can count me in the same group that initially lamented over the loss of otherwise undeveloped land and the certainty that one of the neatest roads I've driven on - Foxcroft - will change forever. The initial plans for the exterior facade, the faux Italian Tuscany, didn't win me over either.

    However, those who cared so deeply for preservation easily could've (1) persuaded the late Amb. Pamela Harriman to place it under conservation easement prior to her death or (2) pulled out the checkbook and bought it for $8,500,000 when it was placed on the market where it sat for a time.

    No takers? Well I'm sure it wasn't for lack of money by residents, but vigilance wasn't there and thus it happened. For the rates to be charges it isn't like this will be a Motel 6 and it will be a welcomed overnight stay solution for the various attendees of tournaments at Great Meadows, 'chases at Glenwood, parents weekend at Foxcroft School, and the like.

    Middleburg has been for seemingly eons a retreat for horse lovers, heck even director Alfred Hitchcock used M'burg and the Red Fox Inn as a backdrop without changing the names in the 1964 movie Marnie. Not to mention visitor of President Kennedy, Jackie O', blah blah, etc etc.

    Still time are and have been a changing even in M'burg regardless of Mrs. Johnson Newman. The old Stephen C. Clark Jr estate of Boxwood, once a very active source of horses be it for steeplechasers or show jumpers is now a winery. The current owner (John Kent Cooke) unlike his legendary father has no contributions to the equine image of the community.

    Plenty of new money has bought up numerous old estates and these are people who don't ride and really add zero value to the riding image of the community and surrounding area. From discontinued use of stables (but they are keep visually perfect), to subdividing lands, not attending local horse events, putting up high fencing and gated entries and discouraging hunts from using their private lands. A high turnover of small businesses in the little commercial district has been in play for well over a decade. The tack shops of old in M'burg are gone which obviously suggests shifts in demands and a relative decline in ridership locally.

    While Sheila might be the easy target to say her Inn is the source of all that going wrong with the town I'm quite certain the situation is more of a "death by a thousand cuts".



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2002
    Location
    Virginia
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    510

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Esther View Post
    Aunt Esther, national and international Purse Champion, has never been a fan of the nouveau riche.
    Me neither Aunt Esther, me neither.
    And there must be a way to keep the coffers full, no matter who it pleases, or displeases.
    Maybe I shouldn't care too much, since I'm in Middleburg, for only another two weeks (Hello, Fredericksburg.). But I remember how the resort has escalated, from 50 rooms; very concerned about keeping the rural nature intact; to more and more. Have to admit I saw it coming, never felt you could trust the word of someone with dollar signs in sight...
    How many times, in how many places has this scenario been played out. It happens again and again. Developer asks to build 10 homes, and then wants 100, then a 1000. Just driving down RT 50 you can see it coming, there is more retail space going up along 50 than the total square footage of the Dulles Town Center. It just means more homes.
    (Where the hell is everyone COMING from, shouldn't there be someplace that's emptying out of people? Let me know, I want to go there!)

    Last night I drove through Middleburg, (visiting that lovely little Library one more time) and there was the Salamander Resort Store, the Salamander Inn Store ( or whatever, across from Southern States) and I believe there are plans for more Salamander Stores in Middleburg.
    It seems the flavor of Middleburg has already become something more amphibious, and it's been creeping on for some time now.

    Hopefully, the resort will integrate without fuss, and you can still sit in front of Scruffy's and eat ice cream and watch the horse trailers go by. Yep, hopefully. Don't think I'll come back to check.
    ____________________________
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure



  11. #31
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2004
    Location
    PA
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    6,814

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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    RR, YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT???
    Louisa with bad taxes? Land of the illiterate??
    See? Herein lies the problem with our rural counties.
    Totally agree with your synopsis. The infrastructure needs money from somewhere, and if the county can't support businesses, well the landowners take it on the chin.

    I PMed you the tax details - we were rather shocked when we saw the number. Frankly, if I had had that data in hand I would not have even bothered to go see the farm.



  12. #32
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    Nov. 1, 2006
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    874

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia73 View Post
    I hope to hell the banks stop lending to developers of this stuff.... but the reality is that their buyers and end users just keep getting wealthier and keep wanting quiet "undisturbed" quaint places to go visit. So it won't stop any time soon.
    My sister worked in banking for years, and they loved developers. Even though the developers had no ethics, which led to massive and costly mistakes in the whole development process (ie, they would do things like build 7 houses and then, when caught by an irate neighbor, belatedly ask for a permit or zoning, etc.), the banks were in love with builders. The last bank she was with, they had 5 developers who'd lost them millions in bad deals, and they were still lending to them.

    On the topic of developments in general, I hate them. But I confess I have fellow feeling with the people here who said that it's come to others, why not to Middleburg? I don't want to see the whole country built up, but I do get tired of people living outside the current suburbia ring behaving as if they should be exempt from housing pressure. What are very densely populated areas supposed to do, build wall-to-wall apartment units across what parks and farms are left so everyone on the fringe can keep their acreage? Development turns everyone against each other, because nobody wants to be the one to suggest what needs to be done is for the government to limit development overall. God forbid a builder or a developer lose his American right to pursue wealth without limit.



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2003
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
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    237

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnField View Post
    This is why we have ZONING. To determine what is appropriate use of land for a given area. Just as you cannot build a pig farm in the middle of Manhattan, you cannot build condos in the middle of a horse pasture in rural Fauquier. Besides, you get into a slew of infrastructure issues.

    I don't care one twit either way about Ms Johnson's inn, but I do resent the notion that McMansions are coming.

    Variety is the spice of life, right? We need all kinds and types of people, housing, and businesses. There is no reason to homogenize an entire county into condos or mcmansions. A county needs it all: farms, rural businesses, SFH's/townhomes/condos, urban centers of business, parkland, rec centers, etc.
    If we don't use zoning as a way to protect and preserve these rural areas of a county that we deem valuable, then homogenization (developing subdivisions) form.
    Actually, I agree with you for the most part. Just because I see the McMansions coming doesn't mean I like it. But, I think that anyone claiming that the Salamander Inn is going to be the soul source of Middleburg's downfall is missing the forest for the trees. As others have pointed out, there's a lot of development planned for Route 50 just east of town. Kudos to the residents of the town if they can manage to stop the exurbs, but I think it's going to take more than jumping up and down on the inn to do it.



  14. #34
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    Mar. 13, 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia, 45 minutes east of paradise - 2 hrs during rush hour
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    2,380

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galloway View Post
    Last night I drove through Middleburg, (visiting that lovely little Library one more time) and there was the Salamander Resort Store, the Salamander Inn Store ( or whatever, across from Southern States) and I believe there are plans for more Salamander Stores in Middleburg.
    The Market Salamander has the worst food and worst service ever. Yuck. Of course I've only went there once. Only took once to know I'd never go back.
    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x



  15. #35
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    Aug. 17, 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
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    494

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    I live in Middleburg, and honestly I am not totally opposed to the inn. It will be a place for my parents to stay when they come to visit or where our clients will stay when they come to horse shop, a place that's not 25 mins away.

    Really? I think the market is so good. Bourboun chicken salad... extreme mac & cheez... the crab cakes... sooo good.



  16. #36
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    Jan. 6, 2006
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    Bonsall, CA
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    Originally Posted by BarnField http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...s/viewpost.gif
    This is why we have ZONING. To determine what is appropriate use of land for a given area. Just as you cannot build a pig farm in the middle of Manhattan, you cannot build condos in the middle of a horse pasture in rural Fauquier. Besides, you get into a slew of infrastructure issues.

    I don't care one twit either way about Ms Johnson's inn, but I do resent the notion that McMansions are coming.

    Variety is the spice of life, right? We need all kinds and types of people, housing, and businesses. There is no reason to homogenize an entire county into condos or mcmansions. A county needs it all: farms, rural businesses, SFH's/townhomes/condos, urban centers of business, parkland, rec centers, etc.
    If we don't use zoning as a way to protect and preserve these rural areas of a county that we deem valuable, then homogenization (developing subdivisions) form.
    Never think that zoning laws are set in stone, ever. Unless a property is put into a conservation easement, and that is put in the deed, zoning and proposed use can be changed.

    Just look at South Riding, and see what can happen.

    Remember Arcola? Well the Arcola Town Center is going in right there. Have you ever driven through Brambleton? OMT in heaven.

    And they wonder why the housing market is in the tank. Not only is it hurting the land, views, horse farms, rural landscape, it's hurting everyone economcially as well!! It went way too crazy for too long. Now is the time to stop it while the market is in trouble. Let the Planning Board know that we don't want more sprawl. Let them develop around the Airport and Arcola, that's done already, but keep it out of the Piedmont. It will be ruined forever if it starts in Gilbert's Corner and Aldie.

    Purcellville is suffering a bit from this already. Just look at all those McMansions on those formerly gorgeous hillsides along route 7.

    There are plenty of other places to build. Keep it out of Middleburg/Aldie/Gilbert's Corner. Stay along US 95 I say.

    It's very scary. I don't want to see that on the west side of Route 15.

    Just look at what's happened to Gainesville! That is the worst planning disaster ever.

    Don't get me started.
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  17. #37
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    22,434

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    Gainesville is a clusterfu**.

    Whatever happened to PW county's "rural crescent".



    I don't loathe Sheila Johnson for the Inn. I loathe her because she's an ariviste and came into Middleburg with the attitude that she was going to teach the rednecks a lesson.

    I don't have a problem with new folks creating Inns, or people buying estates.

    What I don't like is the attitude. Newcomers come to the country for the "rural life", then bitch that there's no Nordstrom.

    That's the attitude that destroyed Loudoun - destroyed what was left of PW and Fairfax - and is in the process of destroying Fauquier.

    And Loudoun and Fauquier are the horsiest parts of the entire state. But not for much longer...



  18. #38
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by La Gringa View Post
    Stay along US 95 I say.
    Thanks a bunch
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  19. #39
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    Jan. 6, 2006
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    Bonsall, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Thanks a bunch
    Fredericksburg and South, are already developed, they can just stay down there, as far as I am concerned.

    Along the I-95 is the place to do this, not in the Bluemont.
    One of a Kind Studio
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  20. #40
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    Dec. 12, 2002
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Why would a hospital be a negative?

    45 min in a car with a broken ankle is the pits and an ambulance would have been longer
    B/c have you ever seen a hospital out in the middle of no where? Nope. It is a guarantee that there will be subdivisions and businesses around it which is right now farm land.

    And there is a hospital much closer than 45 minutes between Reston, Landsdowne, and Winchester and Manassas.
    Grab mane and kick on!

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