[Gucci Cowgirl]

Is there anyone who has gone through this? I am very confident in our surgeon, but am a little worried about the future of our very well bred dutch colt.

I know there is a bit of scar tissue that will accumulate at the incision site, and that if we use GameReady Equine, we can prevent quite a bit of it, but are there any true success stories here?

Also, I am not going to present him to the Oldenburg inspection in october, as he won't be recovered yet. Any thoughts on wether they will still approve and register him? he wont be a stallion, we are gelding him at the same time as the surgery...

Just a little worried about our little man, though it was cute the surgeon who came out to assess him wanted to take him home with her since he is SO well behaved.....loads, clips, crossties, bathes, wears tack etc as a yearling....

[EqTrainer]

Why is it being done? Have all the other alternatives been looked into?

I ask because what I always hear from vets is: that the surgery is no big deal, there are no repercussions, blah blah.

But common sense tells me, that cutting a tendon means... you have a now non-functional tendon appartus. And it was meant to be functional.

And I have dealt with older horses who had things like this done and there were problems. One had a negative coffin bone plane on a front foot from one of those surgeries (cannot remember which one) One could not lock his knee, and it shook. And he tripped. It was awful. He ended up getting put down.

So I guess to me, I would have to have an incredible reason to do it.

[Shellythehorsenut]

I have had 3 horses over the years that had the check ligament surgery. For two of them it did not alleviate the problem but my horse that is 20 this year had her check ligament cut at 2.5 months of age. She has been 100% sound her whole life after the surgery. At 20 she has just a smidgen of arthtitis in her hips nothing more than any other 20 yr old. She looks 10. Do not worry about the consequences and potential for future problems. It did work for me and I have a fabulous riding horse because of it.

[Forgewizard]

Check ligament surgery ( tenotomy) is usually done beause there is a contracture of the flexor tendon, which actually in reality is due to a contracture of the flexor MUSCLE.

I am surprised this is showing up in a yearling. Is she growing again? Could your feeding program be contributing to faster long bone growth?

Have you talked with the vet about tetracyclene? Yes its an antibiotic, but it has the wonderful side effect of relaxing muscles and tendon contractures - can be given orally or injected.

Can the horse be kept on harder ground to stimulat proper hoof placement and limb support? Can you apply physical therapy in the form of stretching, massage and liniments to encourage the muscle to relax and lengthen?

Even if you proceed with the surgery - all these suggestions ideally need to be followed through, otherwise you end up with the same problem all over again and now have a horse with scarred ligaments.

Hope this helps! Cheers, Kim

[Rubs Not Pats]

I did this in a yearling and it will scar. Make sure the approach is from the inside. I have had it done both ways. The horse was fine and fully functional.

[Gucci Cowgirl]

The surgery is being done to correct the angles of his feet - I am not explaining very well, but the idea is that he became very upright in both front hooves a couple months ago, si we had the vet come out to give phosphorus injections, which relax the ligaments. This didn't work well enough, so the vets suggested we do the surgery now before any serious damage occurs.

The surgeon said that though they separate the check ligament, it actually reattatches, at the correct angle in a very short time.

She said his body condition (weight wise) was perfect, and I told her our feeding plan and turnout plan for him, which she approved of...So she believes it is just genetic. His dam had a check ligament tear late in her career, which ended her competitive schedule....

I don't really mind the scar tissue, I just want this horse to be able to be a sound, athletic dressage horse later on!

She said that if he goes through another major growth spurt, the problem could happen again, though it is rare...

he is 14 months old, and 15 hands high. the string test indicates he will finish at 17.1!

[exvet]

Just curious and you certainly don't have to answer but when you say "her" is it Julie or Renee that will be doing the surgery? To be honest the surgery is pretty straight forward and an uncomplicated recovery period (and following the aftercare instructions) as much as a decent surgeon who knows what they're doing greatly affects the amount of scar tissue that forms.......and you can do everything to the letter and still end up with some scar tissue. I sold a filly who had this done (I acquired her post surgery) a few years ago. To look at her most cannot tell that she had surgery. I can palpate the scar(s) but they are minimal. She's for sale again but it has nothing to do with her previous surgery which she recovered fully from and shows no lameness issues related to it.

[Fire_fly]

I have had this done on my horse for the same reason. It was fine. minimal bump/scar and the result was excellent. horse is now 4 and sound and looks great. Good luck.

[Lookout]

Have you talked with the vet about tetracyclene? Yes its an antibiotic, but it has the wonderful side effect of relaxing muscles and tendon contractures - can be given orally or injected.

I wonder about how 'wonderful' this side effect is. If it relaxes one tendon it surely must relax them all, and it makes me wonder about all the 'loose stifle' problems people report and any connection.

OP, please consider getting someone to trim your horse's heels down before opting for drastic surgical measures. Lowering the heels will correct the angles. Put the knife to the heel, not the ligament.

[Shellythehorsenut]

I wonder about how 'wonderful' this side effect is. If it relaxes one tendon it surely must relax them all, and it makes me wonder about all the 'loose stifle' problems people report and any connection.

OP, please consider getting someone to trim your horse's heels down before opting for drastic surgical measures. Lowering the heels will correct the angles. Put the knife to the heel, not the ligament.

The tendon relaxation that is a side effect of Oxytetracycline injections is not a permanent situation. It lasts only a few days to weeks, but it gives tight tendons the time to realign properly. I sincerely doubt that any loose stifle problems were caused by a long term effect of the injections.

[EqTrainer]

Oh yes.. what is baby eating? I was not thinking thru last night, I would definately be talking to breeders who deal with this. I believe Progressive has a mineral drench that can help w/this significantly.

And Lookout is right - if the heels need to be lowered, then lower them. One of the reason I started trimming was because my baby snapped off a toe and started to get more upright. My farrier handed me a rasp and said USE IT OR ELSE. Of course it wasn't quite that simple but it wasn't that hard, either!

[Gucci Cowgirl]

thanks for the replies!

He has had consistant hoof trimming, as it is, he runs around on hard (Arizona) pasture, so there really is no heel left to take off, he has only a half inch of heel on both front feet...

the vet (one from Chapparral exvet!) said that to try to correct this problem through removing the rest of his heel will just make him footsore with feet that will still grow out incorrectly.

He has been eating very high quality timothy hay, and strategy his whole life..the surgeon assured me he looks better than most yearling she sees, he is not overweight in the least!

[VirginiaBred]

I personally think you should contact Morgen Flynn (Jackie Blue) that posts here. Please PM me if you need her contact information. She is a Dynasplint Rep, and works miracles with this kind of situation.
No scars.
No surgery.

[ASB Stars]

I have a mare who had a desmotomy done when she was six months old. Long story- I tried to get my Vet to be aggressive, etc. to avoid it, in any event- there we were. This mare has a scar on the medial side, and has always been sound. She was Reserve Champion at Devon this year- pretty good for a kid who had a boo-boo foot!

Feeding is such a major part of managing these things, although heredity is something that is hard to outrun on these deals.

I trim most of my own horses, myself. I got lucky, and had a great teacher, many moons ago....

[EqTrainer]

He might look great on Strategy but obviously something is not working.

Please do yourself a huge favor and call Progressive Feeds and talk to Don Kappler before you do anything else. I am no expert on feeding babies so I take his advice and do not have issues like this. Maybe luck but I think not. Also, post your concerns on the breeding board.

[Lookout]

thanks for the replies!

He has had consistant hoof trimming, as it is, he runs around on hard (Arizona) pasture, so there really is no heel left to take off, he has only a half inch of heel on both front feet...

the vet (one from Chapparral exvet!) said that to try to correct this problem through removing the rest of his heel will just make him footsore with feet that will still grow out incorrectly.

The angles follow the heel height. If the heels were the correct height, the angles would be correct. No doubt he'll be a little sore from having his ligament cut as well. He'll not be footsore if trimmed correctly.

[Lookout]

The tendon relaxation that is a side effect of Oxytetracycline injections is not a permanent situation. It lasts only a few days to weeks, but it gives tight tendons the time to realign properly. I sincerely doubt that any loose stifle problems were caused by a long term effect of the injections.

Maybe. Maybe not. There's no way to really know for certain.

[Forgewizard]

OP, please consider getting someone to trim your horse's heels down before opting for drastic surgical measures. Lowering the heels will correct the angles. Put the knife to the heel, not the ligament.

NO it won't. You could hack off ALL the heel walls and as long as those muscles are still contracted, those heels will NEVER touch the ground!

You can reduce the heell wall depth, and add a suportive wedge, while relaxing the tension in the muscles and continuing to stimulate use of the limbs - THAT will get the hoof correctly growing!

I am concerned as I mentioned that this issue has showed up so late in this filly's life. Which to me bespeaks a feed/environmental issue that could be overcome without surgery if approached properly.

Even WITH surgery the hoooves still need proper trimming, proper support and proper stimulation or else the healing will take affect and be right back where she started from!

A competent vet will inform the OP of the PT and necesary management - well, at least I HOPE they do!

Tetracyclene will NOT cause loose stifles.

The injections of phosphorous may have been to balance the uptake of calcium this horse is getting and which is contributing to the fast long bone growth. which is one more reason to analyze nutrients and environment and consider an alternative to surgery.

IF the calcium ratio is off - talk to your vet about feeding bran to balance it. Or remove the high calcium source ( like quality alfalfa hay) and replace it with something less "high powered" but still nutritious.

Hope this helps! Cheers! Kim

[Gucci Cowgirl]

Kim

yes, the phosphorus injections were to balance out the calcium ratio, as our previous vet informed us that foals need no special nutrition (thanks a lot!)

So we switched vets, and though the phosphorus has helped, the vets are worried it won't be enough.

after the surgery, he needs special shoes and farrier attention, a well as walking 8 times a day, no turnout.

that is fine, I live at the barn.

also,he has never had a flake of alfalfa in his life - he lives on timothy grass hay, and has a small amount of grass in his pasture...which he is on about 10 hrs a day. As for the Progressive, we are switching to progressive once our grain supply is out, which will be in a week or so, after the slow transfer. The rep in this area is scheduled to come out on tuesday to evaluate all the horses..

[exvet]

the vet (one from Chapparral exvet!) said that to try to correct this problem through removing the rest of his heel will just make him footsore with feet that will still grow out incorrectly.

In my experience she is correct, particularly this time of year and this area. However, this brings up a good point with respect to a couple of other posts regarding the possible heritable influence. Though the surgery in my experience as helped, as with any horse great care must be taken when trimming this horse so that it is kept properly balanced with particular attention to the affected foot. It doesn't take much for problems to recur if proper hoof trimming and nutrition are not followed (less forgiveness if you will despite surgery) but it sounds like you are well covered in that area as well. If you're not sure then talk to her (as we both know she'll be able to answer and/or get the info that you need.