That's kind of what I was wondering . . . the bevel is only important to me if I'm putting the needle into something alive on an angle, when "bevel up" is important.
Otherwise . . . there is no "up" if one has the needle perpendicular to a flat surface. :)
Darn, I was hoping for some fantastic way to keep the stopper intact :(
There is nothing different about the needle going in based on which way the beval is pointed. It's the same surface area, with the same angles, same tip, same hole, no matter how you do it.
Pardon my education but that is what I was taught and is still is being taught.
Google coring IV vials and you will find that technique listed all over the place. You don't want to core vials. You end up with a leaky stopper and you can inject pieces of rubber into your subject if you happen to draw the core up into the syringe.
To clarify, you face the bevel up with the needle at a 45-60 degree angle. You as push the needle in, by the time is goes through the stopper, you want the needle now at 90 degrees.
But hey what do I know after 34 years of compounding IV solutions? It isn't good to core a vial of $10,000 IVIG or chemo. Little floaty things in the soup are not good.
But you all proceed.:winkgrin:.
"The needle should be inserted at a 45-60° angle to the plane of the stopper with the opening of the needle tip facing up (i.e., away from the stopper). A small amount of pressure is applied and the angle is gradually increased as the needle enters the vial. The needle should be at a 90° angle just as the needle bevel passes through the stopper."
is a bit different than
"Make sure the bevel it pointed up before you then put the syringe vertical and enter the vial.
You can find *passionate* arguments on "bevel up" or "bevel down" on any nursing or infusion therapy BB. Sort of like reading COTH threads about which way blanket straps should be crossed. :lol:
Had you explained it more thoroughly the first time, perhaps people would have understood what you meant.
Originally Posted by Kyrabee
Okay, so now I am freaking out wondering if I have injected rubber into my horse. Oy! I can't really grasp / visualize how the angle makes a difference either. I'm slow.
All of this is sort of sterile one up-manship.
There are lots of ways try things and plenty of criticism to go around. But in the end there is no way to maintain a sterile environment in a multidose vial. Every time you insert a needle, you contaminate the remaining sample. That's just how it is. The more times you do it, the more contaminated the sample becomes.
How much time do you think vets generally spend worrying about this?
My vets - probably zero ;). Obsessive worrying and overblown anxiety are my responsibility :yes:
Originally Posted by nhwr
I think that's the purpose of this forum, no?
Originally Posted by ldaziens
My vet worries about it not one bit. That's the way he is. I, on the other hand, worry about it SOME. That's the way I am. I take what measures I reasonably can to mitigate the risk of infection. I do not delude myself that I am approaching "zero" risk with the measures I take. But I'm fairly certain I'm closer to that number than those who just smack a needle into a horse with no preparation whatsoever. :)