When a SO says "This stallion is not ideal for..."

Even though I don't plan to breed my mare (at least not for a while), I still enjoy looking at stallion owners' websites to see what the stallions on their roster are doing and producing.

I've noticed that many of them will have lists of things that the stallion tends to do, such as improve a hot mare's temperament, add bone and size, etc. Some also provide information on what the stallion is not ideal for, as in "this stallion would not be ideal for mares who have X characteristic", where X is usually a very specific conformational trait like a too short or too long neck, low heel, back at the knee, etc.

How do they come up with these lists? Is it simply from an analysis of every mare that is bred to that stallion and every foal that he throws? Or are the stallion owners taking other things into account?

In a couple of instances, I've found it hard to imagine that all the conformational non-idealities would have been represented by the collective group of mares coming in.

Not really an answer to your question but I love seeing stuff like that. So many SO's tend to act as if you could breed their stallion to anything and get a upper level prospect. We all know that isn't true and is just a money grab, so an honest evaluation of their stallion's strengths and weaknesses in the breeding shed is refreshing. You see that a lot in the TB world because a stallion has such a short window to establish himself that they want the best matches possible early on.

@laurie: I totally agree. If I were to breed my mare, I would prefer such a SO who operates that way to help stack the deck in my favor as much as possible.

@laurie: I totally agree. If I were to breed my mare, I would prefer such a SO who operates that way to help stack the deck in my favor as much as possible.

Many stalion owners know the stallion's family intimately and the knowledge is gleaned from generations of breeding. Just because Superstud doesn't have a short back, he comes from a line of horses that are known to produce short backs etc.

You aren't just breeding to Superstud, you're breeding to the 16 horses that created him.

I wish more stallion owners would post a basic of what type mare crosses best with their stallion ie small mare, big mare, big boned etc so then we don't waste time emailing to find out oh all his crosses with 15.3 mares turned out even smaller etc i know each mare is different but I do think some SO have trouble because yes it refiners big old style warmbloods but it will still add to the TB mare. So they say nothing until you ask. The problem is every breeding has its own equation!

It might be better for stallion owners to just list what their stallion passes on. Then the mare owners can see if that matches the mares needs. I love the websites that show offspring out of a warmblood dam (show picture of dam -video of baby) at least two examples of different built mares. I also like seeing of a tb mare. Pictures of baby heads is not enough lol videos of them moving are so informative!

I like honesty in SO's. I try and drive around the country and look at loads of stallions. I get that it's much easier where I am. I've pretty much used the same SO for all my warmblood breedings. They've also seen my mare and so we can be honest about what is best for her. A couple of years ago I went down and was asked which was my favorite. I said so and so and then was asked and best match for your mare and I said so and so. Two completely different stallions. Because at the end of the day that's important. To get the best foal I need to realise my tastes might not be exactly what's best for my mares. The best suited was by no means a second choice. I didn't breed but if I did I'd go back to him in a heartbeat. Have another one by him here.

But I've found most pretty honest here. Well the ones I want to deal with anyway. If you really want the best cross you can learn a lot if you choose to listen. For their part they unfortunately got to deal with the MO who brought her own food and called almost daily to find out how "precious mare" was. Not easy being a SO!

Terri

I 100% agree with that. I just turned down a potential mare last night as I didn't think she would suit my one fellow.

After you have a few dozen foals on the ground you can tell what the stallion improves and what he doesn't improve. There are a few "stamping Stallions" out there that produce the foals that are so consistant that you doubt a mare was involved. If the stallon is approved by a registry that inspects the foals, the inspectors are usually happy to let us know what the stallion improves and what he doesn't improve. They can also make recommendations to the stallion owners about types of mares their stud will cross well with.
Ultimately it is up to the individual SO and MO to make the decision. I always look at the weaknesses of both horses and ask "If the foal had all those weaknesses, would it still make a good riding horse?" If the answer is no. don't breed them.

Personally I post the things that I know they are stamping strong. A lot of traits are dependent on the eye of the beholder. Like height, movement, bone, Head type, back length. I always ask what the mare owner wants to get out of the equation as that makes the biggest difference. And sometimes what I think is big boned or refined, the mare owner may have a different view. And what is most important for them. I can give them my ideas of course, but what good is that if it is not what they want out of it. They are the one that will ultimately deal with the foal and provide it's start in life. Best give them the best chance to get what they want. Of course full siblings as everyone knows from their own brothers and sisters are not alike, so lots of variables.

Kathy

I think some of this comes from the various societies who are evaluating foals as well as stallions and mares. They record impressions of the stallions foal crop so this would be on the stallions record with the society. When reading these comments you need to consider that it comes from a more uniform mare than we might be breeding. KWPN is selecting their horses to a common standard...mares and stallions. The herd has a lot of uniformity. The results will be more predictable. If I cross my Irish Draught mare or a TB mare on an approved KWPN stallion known for producing certain traits I have to realize that I am not breeding from an approved KWPN mare who is bred to throw a certain type and the approved KWPN stallion is also bred to throw a certain type. I will have more unknown genetics in the pairing. PatO