Kentucky goes backwards - not surprising

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Originally Posted by twotrudoc

Not exactly, Lex :) And I agree with Israels way of doing things

"Israel’s gun control laws are the opposite of America’s, say Israeli officials. “Only those who have a license can bear arms and not everyone can get a license,” the head of the firearms licensing department told the Jerusalem Post. To qualify for a license, Israelis must at least age 21, pass a physical and psychological examination, undergo a background check and then qualify at a licensed shooting range. Gun owners are retested every three years, they get a one-time supply of 50 bullets when they order their weapon, and as of next year, they must keep their gun in a safe."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelp...-control-laws/

The reason for a lower crime rate is weapons are very, very evident. Israel is *always* at war and in close proximity to being attacked at all times. Ya really think Rapist Ron is going to attack some female who may very well be armed and extremely handy with her weapon? Or Murdering Mike, like he is going to go on a shooting rampage when there are 10 well armed soldiers in the area?

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The Jpost article you linked to said exactly what I said, so how am I incorrect?

Yes, but yours had a certain tone that made it sound like the criteria were much harder than what it is :)

Just my perception and I aim to clarify information.

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Originally Posted by twotrudoc

Yes, but yours had a certain tone that made it sound like the criteria were much harder than what it is :)

Just my perception and I aim to clarify information.

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"Gun licenses are only given out to those who have a reason because they work in security or law enforcement, or those who live in settlements where the state has an interest in them being armed. Anyone who fits the requirements, is over age 21 and an Israeli resident for more than three years, must go through a mental and physical health exam, Amit said, then pass shooting exams and courses at a licensed gun range, as well as background checks by the Public Security Ministry."

"Amit said that since 1996, not long after the Rabin assassination, there has been a continuous reduction in the amount of weapons in public hands due larger to stricter regulations. He estimated there are about 170,000 privately-owned firearms in Israel, or enough for around one out of every 50 Israelis, far less per capita than the US, where there are an estimated more than 300 million privately owned guns for a population of a little more than 300 million."

You'd call that criteria easy?

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Now, why would that be appropriate for your library, your assessor's office,
your public swimming pool our your county's clerk office? Who on those premises would one feel the need to send a message to?

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Whoever wants to steal your laptop and Mercedes? :winkgrin:

I'd want to open carry in a city before I'd want to open carry in the boondocks of AZ. Not a lot of crime from cacti and scorpions.

As a matter of fact, it's illegal to shoot those great big cacti, even if they already look like they're doing the "Hands in the air and don't move!" thing. :cool:

I may be wrong, but it seems the issues may be the perception of who you think *should* be carrying a firearm at all. That "country folk" are fine and expected to carry them but metrosexuals, urbanites, dinks, yuppies, city slickers, suits and CEOs should stick to the stereotype of professional people shouldn't look like hicks and only hicks carry guns.

"To qualify for a license, Israelis must at least age 21, pass a physical and psychological examination, undergo a background check and then qualify at a licensed shooting range. Gun owners are retested every three years, they get a one-time supply of 50 bullets when they order their weapon, and as of next year, they must keep their gun in a safe."

Seems fair to me.

Here's a new thought toward the gun issue.........http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/0...regation-laws/

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Originally Posted by twotrudoc

"To qualify for a license, Israelis must at least age 21, pass a physical and psychological examination, undergo a background check and then qualify at a licensed shooting range. Gun owners are retested every three years, they get a one-time supply of 50 bullets when they order their weapon, and as of next year, they must keep their gun in a safe."

Seems fair to me.

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You missed the boat on that one because the statement left out the first and foremost requirement for legal civilian firearm ownership in Israel, which is that you must demonstrate, to the state, a clear need or reason to own a firearm due to your occupation or place of residence in a dangerous area or you must meet certain military service requirements in addition to the subsequent required license qualifications. If you cannot meet that first requirement, you cannot apply for a firearms license, regardless of your meeting the qualifications.

I appreciate your viewpoint Lex :)

Now, here are the actual Israeli regs ;)

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/israel-firearms.htm

The Israel Dept. of the Interior makes notification to the general public the requirements necessary for the obtaining of a permit to possess a firearm:
1. Applicant must be a permanent resident of Israel for 3 consecutive years prior to making application for a firearms permit.
2. Applicant must be 21 years of age.
3. The permit request must be for personal use, not to engage in the business of firearms sales.
http://jpfo.org/images02/criterias1-400.jpg
4. Applicant must fall into one of the following categories:
a. Part-time reservist (volunteer) for 3 years- may own 1 handgun
b. Such a reservist (volunteer) is a member of a gun club - may own 1 rifle
c. Professional, licensed public transportation driver, transporting a minimum of 5 passengers - may own 1 handgun
d. Licensed animal control officer- may own 2 hunting rifles, *not* full automatic weapons, or semi-automatic weapons with a limited capacity magazine.
e. Full-time dealer of jewelry or large sums of cash or valuables - may own 1 handgun

West Bank and Gaza Strip Settlers:
1. A resident in a militarily strategic buffer zone, essential to the security of the State of Israel - may own 1 handgun
2. A business owner in these geographic areas - may own 1 handgun

Veterans:
1. Veterans of the Regular Army honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer, and veterans of the Reserve Army with the rank of regimental commander- may own 1 handgun
2. Retired law enforcement officers with the rank of sergeant - may own 1 handgun
3. Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander- may own 1 handgun

Individuals:
Upon presenting documentation that one is about to receive a souvenir, a prize, an inheritance, or an award of appreciation from the Israel military."

And when you consider that being in the military is compulsory with very few exceptions for the entire Israeli population, you can plainly see that there are not a whole lot who do not qualify in some way to own a hand gun LOL!!

http://www.mahal-idf-volunteers.org/...ontent.htm#who

The Jewish Gun Group information you linked to is incorrect and over a decade old and the Forbes article you linked was poorly written as it only listed the license requirements and not the license qualifications, which are what we are talking about here. Read up on the current laws. Under current laws, unless you meet the prior service requirement as a former officer in good standing above a certain ranking, you MUST have a need to own a firearm and demonstrate that to the government before you can apply for a firearms license. Tons of articles and studies over the past few years about Israeli gun laws state exactly that including the Jpost article that you linked to earlier.

Go tell the author of the piece he writes poorly, it is of no consequence to me whether or not they meet your standards of writing :lol:

Here ya go, from December 17, 2012, 10:35 am (that is a few months ago)-->

To receive a gun license, one technically needs to meet two sets of criteria. First, the basics: A gun owner must be a citizen or a permanent resident and speak some Hebrew. The person can’t be a minor and can’t have any physical or mental problems hindering him from operating a firearm. Second, one must show cause to carry a weapon, a privilege limited on paper to about a dozen categories of people whose work conditions are perilous enough to justify carrying a firearm.
These are the strict gun laws that many commentators have been citing as the reason the Jewish state has no Newtowns or Columbines. But take a closer look, and that second set becomes quite porous: Security guards, obviously, are permitted their guns, but so are men and women who work in the diamond industry, or who handle valuable goods or large sums of cash. Anyone who lives or works in an “entitled residency”—code for a high-risk area, meaning the settlements—is permitted a weapon, no questions asked. Retired army officers can easily obtain a license, as can anyone who has inherited a gun from a friend or a relative. And sportsmen can easily get shotgun permits if they claim that they wish to use it to hunt pheasant or boar.
The upshot: Anyone can come up with an excuse to legally own a gun. I have personally witnessed more than one friend apply under false premises, claiming that their work required that they travel to settlements and other high-risk areas, and walk out, a short while later, with pistols much like the ones used in Aurora or Columbine. Assault rifles, admittedly, are harder to come by in Israel. If you are not a soldier or a reservist or don’t have one in your family—again, nearly the entire population—the only way to obtain semiautomatics is if you reside, or claim to reside, in a settlement.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news...as-no-newtowns

We were talking about the ownership laws of Israel vs the US and not how Israeli's fudge the paperwork to get guns in violation of those laws. :mad:

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Originally Posted by MistyBlue

I may be wrong, but it seems the issues may be the perception of who you think *should* be carrying a firearm at all. That "country folk" are fine and expected to carry them but metrosexuals, urbanites, dinks, yuppies, city slickers, suits and CEOs should stick to the stereotype of professional people shouldn't look like hicks and only hicks carry guns.

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In typical COTH fashion, some are so 'passionate' about their position that they completely fire over the top of the point. no pun intended...

This is not about WHO carries a gun openly, but about where......
After decades of no complaints, no incidents to necessitate open carry in public buildings (BTW this includes the Louisville Zoo) someone decides to draft this unnecessary legislation.

I am pretty certain the goal was to send a message to the WH, since the NRA was right there helping to draft this bill.

IMO it's childish and just another way of driving both sides apart.
Most everyone living here is shaking their heads and rolling their eyes.
But heck, we are used to it. McConnell is already running negative ads against Ashley Judd even though she hasn't said a peep about whether she is even considering running against him in 2014.

With that, "I am sticking to my guns" and going to bed, so tomorrow I will look halfway presentable in the suits and laptop environment I work in.
And then maybe I should ask my employer if I can carry my gun in the office, because, because, because......(have to work on a legit reason)........
:lol:

LOL!! Well, Lex, the reality of gun control laws in either country supports the supposition that gun control is ineffective. And, whether you believe the actual Israeli laws or not is your business. We are all entitled to our opinions but our opinions are not all facts, KWIM? I'm with the OP and sticking to my guns :lol:

Have a good night!

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Originally Posted by up-at-5

Yikes, makes me think twice about wanting to visit the State, and many others for that matter. A lot of my friends feel the same way. Too bad, we spend a LOT of money when we visit.

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Oh gosh. I'm sure us pro-2nd Amendment states miss your "LOT" of tourist money. Take a closer look at the states with less gun control and you will see, on a whole, much stronger economies. So go ahead and spend your "LOT" of money in, say, Chicago. They are evolved and have no guns. The law forbids them.

luvmytbs, while you and your friends have not complained about restrictions on open carry, there are millions of other citizens of your state. Maybe they were complaining and your low quality local reporting failed to write that story up. You don't like the law? This is America. Work to change it. In Texas, concealed handguns are permitted in government buildings unless there is a courtroom located in the building, or the building is a school. Open carry is not permitted here. I don't know that I've heard of any gun violence occurring at the DMV even though they are one of the most maddening of government offices.

And from your comments about McConnell, I'd gather you are Democrat. It seems these days that Democrats like legislating behavior. Maybe ya'll can pass a law that will make hick behavior illegal. Then everybody in Kentucky can stop carrying weapons in public, drive a Mercedes, and carry a laptop to work in urban, uptown offices. After all, if they are not like you, or live like you, or think like you, or have different opinions than you, they are not evolved. Your superior knowledge of how others should live will be greatly appreciated. It's up to you and your fellow Democrats to save Kentucky from the horrors of hickdom.