Please don't get me wrong Heinz 57, I do appreciate it!
Please don't get me wrong Heinz 57, I do appreciate it!
I try to ride side saddle. :rolleyes:
Not getting to far too fast, but having fun meeting people and learning.
Left coast side saddle rider checking in. And, to answer 5 and 57, Sidesaddle Rider has a built in clientele - as she is part of that market. Small Change, not being in that "world," would probably not be marketing her saddle appropriately (and eBay is often not the place to go, either), so that "pretty penny" would be lost to her.
The Side Saddlery also takes saddles on consignment.
There is much more of a market in Middleburg, VA for side saddle riders compared to Ontario Canada.
I would love to learn to ride side saddle. Lack a horse that could probably handle it.
Actually, even though I've never met her, "5" has been snarky towards me from the day I first posted (here or on the ss listserve) anything regarding my sidesaddle experiences. I still remember her direct copying and pasting of a post that I had written in 2003 about my first day out hunting aside with Middleburg, to another bulletin board (that someone anonymously emailed me about), where she then proceeded to ridicule me and basically call me a blatant liar. Why? I have absolutely no idea, and honestly I don't have time for people with that kind of attitude. When I called her on it by posting a response, offering to give her phone numbers and email addresses of people who were out hunting that day and could verify everything I had written, there was no response from her and the whole thread was removed. As a result of that, I pretty much ignore any comments she makes on here. :)
However, that aside, I *always* give someone an accurate value on their sidesaddles when asked for my assessment. If they want to consign them with me, fine. If not, no problem there either. I am happy to make recommendations for other sellers, if desired, or they can sell them personally.
Do I purchase saddles (or hunt attire, appointments, etc) that are advertised and being sold on places like eBay, tacktrader.com, etc., that are, in my opinion, underpriced? Well, yes, of course! As would any person. I believe it would be called "finding a good deal!" I didn't tell the seller to sell them at that price!
To give you an example, I recently picked up a Champion & Wilton sidesaddle at an antique store in PA. I paid $150 for it, which is what it was priced at, and which is what I felt the tree is worth. It needs restoration (as my friend said when she saw it, "It needs a Joan Rivers-kind of facelift!"), which will probably cost me about $1k or more. Even if I had told the antique dealer, "Hey, you know, if you put $1,000-1,200 in that, you could probably sell it for $1,800!", do you honestly think they would have then done that? No, they would have said, "Well great, buy it then, put the money into it, and you've got yourself an $1,800 saddle!" They are happy with the price they got for it, and I am happy with the price I purchased it. Will I make a profit on it? Yes, eventually. But not that much of one, when you consider it will probably be 6-8 months before it will be finished, and the money that is then tied up. It is more important to get another good old-name sidesaddle restored, usable, and available to continue to let others be able to keep riding aside!
Small Change, I am not sure why the PM didn't go through. Feel free to email me directly at the email address on my website.
I used to post on here also about sidesaddle and related items. But I got ridiculed and told I knew nothing about sidesaddles too. My 50 years experience counts for nothing.
If you are new to the world of sidesaddle, research all you can. Go to clinics and find a mentor. Devon has suppied good sidesaddles for many riders who would have never found one to fit them or their horse. She is a reputable dealer and has helped many ladies get started well in sidesaddle. It takes lots of work to restore a sidesaddle. Lots of hand sewing and lots of hand flocking the panels to get the right fit. If you can get someone to help you find a good fitting sidesaddle then it is great. Some of us have spent a lifetime looking for just the right sidesaddle. It is a wonderful sport. And there are many ladies in the USA who are riding both English and Western. There are many veteran sidesaddle riders who are very glad to help young ones get a good start in the sport. Wish you the very best in your quest.
Sarah, I clinic near Buffalo (Jamestown) during the summer (mostly dressage/eventing riders). Have done (and won) the VA/Wa international side saddle hunter circuit and showed Devon SS dressage.
Here is a copy of the email I sent SC.
I am oversaddled with sidesaddle trees that need rebuilding at this point so I don't have a dog in this fight - Do like to see pictures though.
However the work that the saddler that Devon uses (Smokey Everhart) is neither safe nor attractive but they are friends and she will use him.
I was encouraged to send a sidesaddle tree to Smokey for a full rebuild because Two seperate sidesaddle riders said his work was great. It wasn't.
I sent a sound saddle tree to Smokey (the leather was completely shot as you can see) and large enough for me to ride in but the saddle I recieved was a junior size 18.5 inch if that, so lean on the flocking that I could feet the wood of the tree through the flocking (Think firm pillow soft - I think it may have been the same type of fiber flocking that is used to stuff pillows and comforters now that I think of it) If I had attempted to use that on a horse They would have picthed a royal fit and for good reason. The materials that I could identify without tearing the saddle down were... Burlap (possibly a potato bag), some leather similar to upholstry or smooth chap leather, very coarse suede and the panels were pigskin embossed but the leather was weird, very spongy (you could compress it thinner with your fingers) It was quite simply the worst made saddle that I have ever seen in my life. It was beyond ugly - It was dangerous to use.
I could have done a better job myself really and I only dabble in leather repair but I know what is good leather and what is bad I can spot crap work and that is what this was.
If I had tried to ride in in the Smokey saddle I would have had the pleasure of watching it fall apart beneith me. If your saddles are rebuilt in the same manner after parts start falling off the new owner will just toss the whole saddle rather than throw good money after bad.
There are a lot of good side saddlers, Robert Jenkins, Lillian Chaudrey a few others I can't remember offhand but there are so few old name sidesaddles available I hate to see any capable of being rebuilt sacrificed.
I mentioned your name once.
If I wanted to be snarky I would have brought up how you needed to change your ebay name because of your bad rating due to your pattern of buying and not paying or selling and not sending. One of the posts that you thought was me was when I loaned my COTH nameto someone you cheated on ebay and she had to publicly out your character here on COTH to get you to do the right thing to get whatever it was you sold on ebay she paid you and you did not to send her.
You worship Smokey. I know for a fact that what he sends out is unsafe and dangerous Ask me about all the other flaws in the saddle - the photos are the short form. I didn't ask him to rebuild an 18 inch tree with unrepaired breaks (They showed rust they were not recent- it did not happen in the mail)
I sent him an old name 22 inch Champion and Wilton and he after a YEAR AND A HALF he sends something built on someone elses cast off tree with work that looks like an unskilled, unmentored, teenagers first attempt at saddlemaking.
I am no saddler and I could have done better.
What do you call people who say they will do one thing and do an to your detriment and their profit with no regard to the prior agreement or your safety?....
'Ethically Challenged' might be the most polite of the many terms that describe them
Now, once I send my saddle back to europe for repairs, I need the girth and pad and stirrup and etc. Lots of sidesaddle items on ebay, so you can compare those prices on ebay with the prices at retail in VA. While the saddles may have been reconditioned and repaired, if they've not been done correctly, then they aren't worth 6500. You just need to be careful, OP, and make sure you don't sell a saddle cheaply and find out later that it was worth much more than you were paid. Shop around, look at ebay, etc.
Next step will be to see if either of my 2 horses will think I'd totally crazy to put a sidesaddle on him/her.
Ah, how nice it is when someone I have, again, never met, thinks they know all about me! And, has the ability to know exactly what I will do! In reality, in this case, if "5" actually did know me, she would know that I use four different saddlers to do repair work on the saddles that I have come in or purchase; two of whom are certified British Master Saddlers.
Do I use Smoky? Yes, for certain things: stitching repairs, new linen, d-rings, patches, etc.
Do I use him for all repairs? No.
Do I use him for complete rebuilds, from the tree up? No. They go to one of the Master Saddlers.
Do I worship him? Well, there are few things that I worship, but I can guarantee you that a person here on Earth isn't one of them.
I am sorry you allegedly had a problem with a saddle that Smoky worked on for you -- which was before I met him. In the ten years that I have been using him, I've never had a problem. People in my area have been using him for fifty years without a problem. So whether he did, or did not, do what you allege that he did, is not something of which I have any knowledge. I prefer to judge people on the actions that I know of personally, rather than take an anonymous internet poster's account of something as gospel truth.
My comment on your snarkiness related to the direct copying/pasting/insulting on another BB of a post I made here in 2003, which I mentioned above, and to which you have remained silent. And, completely off topic to the point of this thread, but my eBay username has 100% positive feedback. I have never had any eBay interactions with you.
cloudyandcallie, I am so glad you were able to get a good deal on a rare French-made sidesaddle! They are lovely. Yes, the one that was for sale in VA (that had been completely maintained and reconditioned by the maker, with all accompanying paperwork) did sell, and at a price set by the consignor. Both the consignor and purchaser were very happy with the transaction. Like any other item, something is only worth as much as someone will pay for it. I would hope that someone selling something, whether a sidesaddle, baseball, or china set, who is at all internet-savvy, would do some comparison pricing on their item to be sure they are getting a fair price.
When people are looking at items for sale at a business that does consignment items, sometimes they forget that while the business can *recommend* a price for an item, based on experience, in the end it is up to the consignor to set the price for their item. I convey ALL offers for items to the consignors -- they can then accept, deny, or counter the offer. Sometimes, some items are overpriced, and the consignor refuses to drop the price. Sometimes an item is quite rare, however, and it does have a high price. All it takes is one person to be looking for that specific item, though. Sometimes people need money, and want to sell quickly, so they price their item less than what it is actually worth. It all depends on a person's circumstances.
Small Change asked if someone could give her an estimate on her saddles; that is what I offered to do -- and am happy to do so publicly! There were no strings attached to that offer, no attempt to purchase the saddles or to get a consignment. Just an offer to give an estimate, after seeing pictures and getting measurements. If you were involved in selling them, you would know that make, condition, tree size, and seat size, all play a role in determining price. I am not sure how this thread turned into what it did...
I'm going to give 5 the benefit of the doubt and assume she's confused SSR with someone else.
I hope she does the decent thing and apologizes for the error.
I feel badly that I derailed this thread asking about my two old saddles. I've been working nights the last two nights, so it was a bit surprising to log on this morning and see the turn the thread has taken!
I'm going to try to get some pictures today, and I will post them here for those who might interested (as well as email them directly to those who have asked about the saddles.).
Sidesaddle is such a neat discipline - I just wish there were more around this area that rode aside! The advice to find a mentor is wonderful, but tough to do when it seems that none exist.
Willow View Springs
RR 2, Breslau, Ontario NOB 1MO
Fax (519) 648-2029
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(519) 855-6865 FAX (519) 855-4941
I have known Joanne for many years and vouch for her. Also a very nice lady. If it is possible to get references from others it is good. She is very good with beginners.
I acquired a sidesaddle from a tack sale about a year ago, and it's SO much fun to ride in! It's a lot easier than I thought it would be, and none of the horses we've used it on so far have gone any differently than they usually do. They seem to like it just fine. :) :) I'd love to do more with sidesaddle...will have to be checking out the FB page!!
To learn to ride sidesaddle takes time and a good teacher. It is easy to get into bad habits of not sitting squarely on the horse. There are many groups in the US that hold clinics to teach new ones to get a good start. Don't hesitate to ask questions. As a sport in general there are all kinds of people involved in it. Use discretion in your associations.
But you will find the true ladies in this sport are generous in their sharing of their experiences and knowledge.
Be careful in buying off EBay. You do not know what you will get just from a photo.
Avoid the Pakistani made sidesaddles. Few fit right. But you might luck out and get one that will fit. Have someone who knows saddle fitting help you before investing lots of money in one you can't use.
There are several books with good information in them on the Internet or on Amazone. Also used books at Abe books.
I wish you the best in finding the right sidesaddle and having great fun.
Here is a link to the pictures of my two saddles - Sidesaddles. It is a Facebook album, but I've made it public, so I hope it works for everyone. I'm looking forward to seeing what people think of them! Even if they're not of much value, it will still be neat to know more about them.
I did measure them as best I could, and those measurements are included with the first picture of each saddle. The little one is about 16" from the front of the upright horn to the cantle, and 12" across the widest part of the seat. The larger one is approximately 20" and 15.5" for the same measurements, respectively.
SSR or sadlmakr can give you more info about the saddles, but they probably aren't worth restoring. Especially if they wouldn't end up fitting you or your horse, or can't accommodate what you want to do (esp. jump).
The one with the stitching is beautiful & unusual (to me; I've never seen one quite like that), so a collector or decorator might be interested in that. Someone might buy the stirrups separately, but I'd try to sell them with each saddle, should you decide not to keep them.
Hundred Oaks has a nice reference page http://hundredoaksinc.com/overview
I saw the photos of the 2 sidesaddles. They are Somersett style from the 1880's. They can be restored. But as far as using them. I think they are too old to use regularly. Perhaps they could be used for Living History with a habit of that era. To get into modern sidesaddle riding you will probably need something more along the lines of the Old Name sidesaddles. You need to find your leg length and what size horse you are going to use. If you can attend a clinic you might get to try out a sidesaddle that will come close to fitting you. Then you will know what size saddle you will need. There are lots of ignorant people out here who may tie into you for using a sidesaddle. They do not know the truth about sidesaddles and will spout off what they hear from others who have very little knowledge about sidesaddles. So ask questions, research and study books you can find on the internet. I love these "Old Ladies" and try to save as many as possible. I hope you find a mentor to help you get started well.