I thought the whole Parelli thing was about ground manners since the conventional wisdom here is that Parelli people don't actually ride. So if this horse was truly "Parellified" wouldn't it have impeccable ground manners.?
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I thought the whole Parelli thing was about ground manners since the conventional wisdom here is that Parelli people don't actually ride. So if this horse was truly "Parellified" wouldn't it have impeccable ground manners.?
OP, so what are you really asking? You don't intend to buy, you don't intend to get involved with re-training, and you say that you understand that his behavior has very little, if anything, to do with the PP-leanings of its owner.
Kinda feels like we're the Parellified horse on the line and you're wiggling it back and forth while we figure out what you really want....
Do you feel the clunk yet?:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by HungarianHippo
Under the assumption that yes, taught by a real person with the feeling for timing to a person with the ability to grasp timing....the animal would be well trained.Quote:
Originally Posted by wireweiners
Welp, if the question was 'would I buy a Pep'd horse', then no, never again. Too much to undo and the retraining takes a whole lot more than a traditionally trained horse. The exasperation of the horses, very hard to get through to them. Too many other horses out there that haven't been Pep'd.
This past year or so, I've been looking at various horses for this, that and the other, and the ones I shy away from, in their ads they say 'been started or trained using Pep's method'. Something is 'wrong' with the horse and they have to sell. I've seen them on FB, they have HOURS of training and the horse is pretty much a monster. Pretty horses, just shot in the brain.
As for the running over someone, that can happen with any non-training method and non-teaching of manners. Which, I guess, brings us back around to the Pep's??
Thought I was pretty clear, just asking a hypothetical question for discussion...Quote:
Originally Posted by HungarianHippo
For me, it's a very timely question. Not to hijack, but my horse is out on lease and has been Parelli'ed all winter. He's due to come back home this spring and I'm a mite bit concerned about what I'm going to have to fix. FWIW, he had freaking beautiful ground manners when he went out on lease. I've heard thirdhand he's been a bit less than perfect lately. Luckily, I'm absolutely not averse to CTMom meetings if needed and I'm not afraid of breaking out some 50 Shades (dressage whip and a chain shank) if need be. Sigh...Quote:
Originally Posted by cnvh
and then you deal with the horse misbehaving?Quote:
Originally Posted by jen-s
Parelli thread hits 2 pages...might be time to throw a little Pop Secret in the microwave, sit back and wait for it....
LOL jen-s!!
I remember you. Am glad that you never got hurt and finally got him to respect your space.Quote:
Originally Posted by cnvh
It would take the same thing whenever ANYONE handles that horse. If he gets disrespectful, then TAKE ACTION to MOVE the horses feet away from your space.
I wouldnt blame Parelli, more would say the horse has gotten away w/being disrespectful. IF people demand respect and MAKE it an issue, the horse will change towards those people.
Things may remain the same w/the owner since she seems to allow it, but that is her choice.
I fill in for our barn worker on his days off. There are a few horses that are allowed to be rude w/their owners, BUT they KNOW they are NOT allowed to get into my space. I have NO problems w/any of the horses, cuz I make it very clear. MY SPACE IS MINE and they are NOT allowed into it, PERIOD. Usually takes a few times, but horses are quick learners.
If you are consistant, then they are too. Good luck!!
I just bought a Parellized horse. Due to that turning in issue (she also likes to change direction) we double lunge her. She can't turn in that way :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gumshoe
The things I noticed in the few I've had, it's more the horse is worn out from dealing with a human who is constantly trying to direct their every move. So then the horse rebels and is an absolute snot. Only by backing off and giving space to the horse and trying to get through to their grapefruit sized brain that it's okay to just 'be'. They still have to mind but no rope shaking or endless roundpenning, just get on and ride down the road on a hopefully loose rein.
'k, that's a "beyond normal limits" response. The horse is free to run away, but stays up your grill while you hit him hard and repeatedly? Parellified or not, that's not your average horse.Quote:
Originally Posted by cnvh
Yep, just stood there like he was too astonished to move. It was like the light bulb took a few seconds to turn on... perhaps he has one of those CPF brains, lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp
Since Parelli always claimed to be people trainers and not horse trainers, there should be nothing to undo as the horse was never trained anyway:D
All twelve of ours moved on in about 2 seconds and are much happier since.
I personally don't think it would be different than re-training any other spoilt horse. Regardless of their training background, manners are manners.
Well, with the couple I've had, it was different. The harder you push them to have manners, the more they push back and are liable to explode. One mare was banned from the fairgrounds due to her explosions, that was before I bought her, something the owner 'forgot' to tell me. As above, I found they are so over-handled, they can't take more stimulus. It was backing off and quit micro-managing their every move. I put nice, easy curb bits in their mouths (Reinsman brand) and had regular saddles (Billy Cook All-Arounds) and on a loose rein went down the road. Really, it took a while for the horses to settle. I'm sure they were expecting a bunch of rope snaking leads and possibly clunking. Turned out, they were very good trail horses if you left them alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by rainechyldes
Perfect timing. I've always had a negative opinion on PP (based on what I've witnessed), but it's been cemented recently.
New Horse arrives at farm for two weeks of training. Wonderful, sweet gelding. Docile, calm, willing, and a true honest-to-god Good Citizen. Owner LOVES horse, can't wait to get him home, LOVES how his training is going.
Horse goes home. Owner subjects poor gelding to PP.
Two weeks later, horse is back, completely different animal. Jittery, constantly worrying, and is now spooking under saddle and is pushy on the ground.
I'm not a Parelli fan but you are describing a horse that has issues that run a bit deeper. Based on your description, it sounds like he natural born lunkhead who did not have a sense of personal space instilled in him when he was very young. He was not handled properly when he was young, he was raised alone without the benefit of having herd mates instruct him, he was an orphan by someone who meant well but then who were unable to impart the socialization he needed..something along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by cnvh
It could be either, based on what I've seen/experienced. The ones I've had were pushy and didn't seem to know personal space edict. I had one run over the top of me because she couldn't wait to get into the pasture. That happened once and she NEVER did it again after I got through with her.Quote:
Originally Posted by sketcher
I like a horse to work off my shoulder, when on the ground. When my shoulder moves towards them, they move away at the same rate of speed. Not these horses. Just stand their ground and my head collided with their head. No sense of personal space. We had some discussions, after showing nicely, then had to get more assertive but can't go too far, because they would blow. In the end, though, they turned out nicely because, I think, someone before the Pep training had started them correctly.
So, yeah, it can happen.