Yes, you accrue amateur points no matter what division you show in. I have never seen an amateur division at any HT that I have been to. However, we received amateur points last year for competing in an open division. The points are based on YOUR status, not that of the division. We finished 2nd out of all the people listed as amateurs in the open division so we got whatever number of points (I never pay attention, not a point chaser so I have no idea of number).
You can sell as many horses as you want to, and make a million dollars a year, and still be an amateur. You just cannot sell horses for others and be paid to do that. You can also breed, have a stallion at stud, and board horses.
I have seen people on the amateur leaderboard who are obviously not amateurs. I think it is rather amusing. I am an amateur but I really don't see what the big deal is about. There aren't any amateur divisions around where I compete, and in order to be on the leaderboard, you really have to have more than one horse at the level, or compete every weekend. Neither applies to me.
So, if you don't like the way it's done, then propose an alternative. Or you can always challenge the status of "amateurs" through the USEF. I personally wouldn't do that (I would be much more inclined to approach the person directly), but that is the recourse and it can be effective.
I had someone challenge my amateur status last year. My status held up with little inquiry. They were saying that I trained and sold horses and had a website. True on all accounts. However, I never teach lessons or take commissions or train for others. So I'm a legitimate amateur... and I really don't see how it benefits me.
I also agree completely with that. :yes:
I agree, but I'm not sure if everyone's incentive is the same.Quote:
The best way to enforce a rule is to set it up so people have incentive to be on the correct side of the matter.
There was a post on my FB feed the other day about a young rider I know excitedly posting about how she had gotten her first sponsor. I semi-jokingly replied "make sure you uncheck that amateur status!" (because the topic was on my mind due to this thread) and the posting was promptly deleted. :lol: I'm not sure 100% of people out there who are on the fringes WANT to lose their amateur status, for whatever reason. That's the part I don't understand--it doesn't really MEAN anything.
Maybe if the USEA just did away with Amateur leaderboards and year-end awards. Or hell, just do away with amateur/pro designations altogether, as it seems to mean precisely nothing to 99.9% of the membership.
Correct me if I am wrong about this, but Juniors and Young Riders can teach/train for money and still be considered Amateurs? I ran into this question about a Young Rider, who had students and was riding at least 5 horses at an event. She was listed as an Amateur.
"I have seen people on the amateur leaderboard who are obviously not amateurs. I think it is rather amusing. I am an amateur but I really don't see what the big deal is about. There aren't any amateur divisions around where I compete, and in order to be on the leaderboard, you really have to have more than one horse at the level, or compete every weekend. Neither applies to me."
I resemble that remark. . . In 2011 I rode the nastiest mare on the planet and made the leaderboard early (in 2 ammy divisions) and stayed on it. I rode one horse and only competed once a month or so. I bought, broke and rode her and didn't take any renumeration, remuneration or even any money for anything.:D:D My credit cards are stil smokin'.
Carry on. . .
BIG KUDOS to the USEA who posted a heads-up about checking the amateur/professional box on the membership renewal! :)
I have a feeling that there might have been some kind of default setup that put everyone in an amateur category when they did not check either box. That might be the reason so many professionals were listed as amateur. Another possible thing....life members don't renew so their status doesn't change either. (By the way, question to those who know -- are all Olympic team riders automatically given life memberships? If not, should they be? - World Championship team riders, too - or medalists at the least in international competition like Pan Am/Olympic/WEG. I think they should.)
Still...the young professionals have a responsibility and duty to check their own status on the leaderboards and correct any error in status PERSONALLY. Does not absolve them from the call for integrity and personal responsibility.
Now, back to my saddle search! (Gauughhh. The third circle of hell....)
Hey, you were winning a lot as well. I have a friend who won one of the year end novice awards, and she did so by winning almost every time she competed. They didn't over-compete at all.
But for me, I would have to compete A LOT in order to be on the leaderboard, since winning often is not part of my M.O., :winkgrin:
Thanks for this poignant post. As someone who has watched the sport evolve over the past 40 years, I've seen more breeches of integrity in more recent years than I ever thought I would. There is much more pressure, competitiveness, and more livelihoods at stake that have come with the increased commercialization of the sport. With respect to the am/pro issue, I do hope the USEA makes a concerted effort to not only define parameters but enforce the rules.
Looks like the integrity of my britches is about to be breached, so I'll have to come back to this in a bit....