I can get through a long show day without taking two Advil, but I will be more comfortable if I take them. If I think it's reasonable to take two Advil myself, why wouldn't it be reasonable to give a horse two grams of Bute?
The problem is when somebody personally takes a scary number or combination of painkillers or other medications, or uses a scary number of painkillers or other medications on a horse.
As has been stated by others, the USEF is doing a good job with testing and trying to stay ahead of the game. There will ALWAYS be cheaters. You will NEVER stop that. USEF is working on testing for drugs that have come to play with new uses.
I really wish more people could see the presentation that was done at the convention. It would change many of your perceptions on what USEF does and the true impact of positive drug testing.
One of the scariest things to me, was the realization that many in the room did not know the "brand name" was really X drug.
USEF did a big thing with getting the test for GABA. They are constantly working on others.
Random testing is really the best option, for various reasons. I do agree that at certain level events testing the top 3 would be good as well, but not a rule. Random implies that anyone at anytime can be tested. That impacts every horse at the show, not just the winners.
Sticky and findeight, I do agree with you. We all want to take care of our animals with compassion and reason. The problem is how to write enforceable rules that address the real problems in the industry.
There are horses who get Dex for allergies and those who get it for quieting. Same thing with Robaxin and a number of other legitimate meds.
But if the language is too broad, then it knocks out the legitimate uses along with the sketchy ones, because you can't legislate intent.
The real problem is those injectables that do not have legitimate purposes and are untestable. Because injecting magnesium and calcium into the vein just before showing has what medical benefit???:eek:
Should be easily found in the insert (which I don't have). Often referred to as Cmax (maximum concentration of drug in the blood) or Tmax (the time after a drug is administered to reach maximum concentration in blood). But remember, just because it reaches Cmax, does not mean that is when it is most effective. It still has to GET to the joints, synovial fluid etc. Which is not immediate (when administering it IV).I do not know enough about the mechanism of action but I would love to stand corrected on I doubt it reaches peak effect in 2 hrs when given IV.Just musing and agreeing with you.... I call BS on EM.
Wuth today's computer systems and databases, tracking this kind of information is not very difficult and pulling reports once the system is designed is easy - whether by vet, trainer, rider, groom, or horse.
If we are serious about protecting our animals and changing the sport, then we ought to be willing to create, support, and pay for the systems necessary to make sure it happen
I must agree with CB regarding Legend. I have administered Legend four hours out from a competition - to older, sore footed horses - on the advice of my vet. I would not classify this practice as off label.
Admittedly I routinely use Legend (and Adequan) prophylactically as well.
There is an enormous difference between the judicious use of theraputic pharmacueticals and doping. I hope, for the sake of the horse, USEF will continue the precedent it has set in regards to restricted use of a single NSAID, etc.
The FEI protocol is far from the solution. They have their own problems with black market drugs.
So, instead, trainers are administering already over-conditioned show hunters with a drug suspected to cause laminitis (which, oddly enough, IS a side effect mentioned in the literature!) and known to suppress the immune system (again, in horses exposed to strange new barn-mates every week) several times per weekend.
I'd love to discuss more Julie's point of view- change the incentives and the behavior will change accordingly.
Change the judging and many problems will be solved (though how to change judging is also a great discussion topic). If horses are not rewarded, as they are currently, for robotic appearances than in turn less horses will be drugged to win in the ring (and less lunging/riding/schooling may also lead to less need for soundness type drugs as well?).
Also, I have heard and agree with talk of changing courses. The current simple courses (single, side, diagonal, side) promote robotic, metronome performances. Less related distances, more singles, less groundlines will, perhaps, reward pace and more "spark" in the hunter ring. Why can't the hunter ring move more towards the derby ideal?
Any other ideas on how to change the game, so to speak. Every poster on this forum has brought up the difficulties of focusing only on the drug rules/enforcement. The cost of vet only administered injections and problems with FEI type stabling, the difficulty of testing for "naturally occuring" drugs such as Mg, how to decipher between performance enhancing and legitimate comfort.
.... so what else can we do to eliminate the incentives for abuse?
What I'm saying is that the penalties are not nearly harsh enough for testing positive. Not even close!
Yes the testers are present. Yes, I'm sure the USEF is working to develop new tests for previously undetectable drugs.
But what is the point if it's a slap on the wrist?
Not being snarky, actually, the insert does not specify whether to stall rest the horse after IV or IA:
DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION:
Legend Multi Dose (20 mL) and Legend 4 mL (40 mg) injected intravenously only. Legend 2 mL (20 mg) injected intravenously or intra-articularly in the carpus or fetlock.
Treatment may be repeated at weekly intervals for a total of three treatments.
Legend Injectable Solution 2 mL: Strict aseptic technique should be observed when administering by intra-articular injection. As with any intra-articular procedure, proper injection site disinfection and animal restraint are important. Excess joint fluid should be aseptically removed prior to injection. Care should be taken to avoid scratching the cartilage surface with the tip of the injection needle. Diffuse swelling lasting 24 to 48 hours may result from movement of the needle while in the joint space.
For intravenous administration, use aseptic technique and inject slowly into the jugular vein.
Horses should be given stall rest after treatment before gradually resuming normal activity.
Honestly, I see alot of new trainers jumping on the multiple meds bandwagon because it's "always been done" and newbie owners blindly accepting all charges on the bill without question because "it's the way everybody does it".
Thats sad and is really starting to bother me after seeing what happens to some nice horses pushed too far for too long in their hands.
Also makes me embarassed for the sport.
here. You'll notice at the top of the page, it says:
For Intravenous Use in Horses Only
Not for Intra-Articular Use
I've been horseshowing in one form or another for over 50 years. Illegal medication use has ALWAYS been an issue. People can posture and complain all the want about judging, types of horses, training, etc. But bottom line, until a penalty with TEETH affects a trainer's business negatively, things will not change.
The USEF playing catch up with testing for new medications or substances will not affect drug use. It never has. Setting down a trainer and/or an owner for a year, or permanently, will.
According to this web site the peak effect of IV hyaluronate sodium (Legend) is approximately 48 hours ...
I got an error message when I tried to pull up the package insert on Bayer's website.