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do you understand why you got the score you did? are the comments and collectives clear? is the handwriting legible? is the scribe's short hand easy to read? i remain convinced after years of scribing, sometimes the judges don't explain well enough. and alot of riders don't know the dressage lingo.....
That is why they have dressage trainers.
The trainers are there to explain what the judge is saying/expecting.
In most cases, yes. Sometimes I get a judge who's comments are meaningless or even incorrect - but luckily not too often. Sometimes I can't read the comments. Sometimes we all stand around and decipher the writing and have a great time making up comments. But in most cases, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I scribe a LOT, so I always feel a bit for the scribes, especially if they get a judge who gives tons of comments. Of course, the advantage - I know the lingo ;)
Every once in a while, I'll get a test where it was obvious the scribe was a newbie - and I'll have to kind of puzzle through what it was SUPPOSE to say, but that doesn't happen too often.
The times I've had trouble understanding comments, it's most often been to do with abbreviations used by the scribe. One that I particularly remember was "NRG" used, repeatedly, in the comments. It took several hours and quite a few readings before I realized it meant "energy"!
For the most part, though, I've had few problems with the test comments at the dressage schooling shows, CTs, and the events I've attended.
forgive me please, if a rider has to depend on their trainer to interpret the dressage test scores, comments and collectives, why is the rider competing? shouldn't rider be able to interpret the test scores on their own? shouldn't a rider be able to be independent? just curious why the trainer is a necessity......Quote:
Originally Posted by alibi_18
I've only been showing 3 years but I don't have any issue reading the comments and the scores. My instructor and I will go over the sheet, and reflect on the good/bad moments while the test is very fresh in both of our minds. I don't need an interpreter, the language is pretty plain and clear to me.
Well, as an example, I am new to dressage even though I have been riding and showing for several decades now. I can READ the comments on my test and I have a good general idea of "the message" ... but I do like hearing my trainer's impressions as well, and find them very helpful, particularly when it comes to addressing whatever deficiencies might have been noted. I consider myself a very capable, independent rider but having the opportunity to discuss my scores with someone who has educated eyes on the ground (and who therefore sees my ride very much as the judge did) can be very useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce
I will never understand why people struggle with the concept of "needing" a trainer or feel the need to denigrate riders who get competent assistance on this or any other aspect of competition; even the most accomplished international riders have trusted trainers assisting them when they show.
Generally I do not have a problem reading the comments or understanding the marks and final score.
I do have a problem with the new 3-part breakdown of the Rider Score. I think that if the score for Rider Alignment & Seat is 6 or less, then the judge should note what it is that needs improvement.
I believe that there must be a LOT of comments (a running commentary) of what the judges is perceiving (positive & negative). The three part breakdown of the seat general impression MUST always be defined imho. And imho there should almost always try to be comments in all the boxes, even those which are high (8+). That said it is unfortunate that the ahsa/usef removed the definition of certain terms from their directives section (but usdf does have a booklet that includes them).
As a rider, I may have zoned out from A to K in preparing for a canter departure, and not really have a feel for how it looked from the ground. So we talk about it. When I've shown without my instructor, I really missed hearing her interpretation of how the ride went. So yes, while I can read and 'cipher' out what the comments meant, having her there to share her comments, too: That's why one has a trainer/instructor. It's not about being independent: It's about having educated eyes on the ground to help you know when things looked great/went well and help you catch the things you thought were great...that could be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce
Every serious rider has a trainer or coach. They don't just roll up to Gladstone with a horse and hope things go well.
I've found that the handwriting is generally easy to read and the comments very helpful. That's one of the reasons I like to show in dressage, for the constructive comments on what needs to be improved.
In 99% of cases, I've understood why good scores were good and why the less than stellar scores were the way they were. I've had one one show so far where I received less than stellar numbers with no comment on why that score had been given and no further comment in the collectives to give any clue! Needless to say, I lodged a complaint with the show managers to state how disappointing it was to have spent the money I did on trailering, entry fees, etc. and to receive no comments whatsoever. Given the other people who were very frustrated with that same judge, I doubt that person will get invited back to that venue. I also have no problem telling people who it was if they want to PM me to know who to avoid wasting their money on.
I really appreciate all the scribes who volunteer their time to make sure that those 99% of judges get their comments written down to help us riders out :)
I have had no problems with any of my tests. :)
Heehee! Sometimes the bunch of us puzzle over "what is THIS letter?" types of things.
On the whole, not much problem deciphering. I will usually go through them at some point with my trainer (she often isn't at shows) so we can take a look at what needs more work. Usually, that doesn't come as an enormous surprise to either of us...
Though sometimes I have a "well, I thought I got that about right" moment which the judge utterly doesn't concur with. That's when I go back to the directives and ponder further. They are generally more right than I am :)
There have been times I really WONDERED about the scores and the comments. Until I saw the video of my ride. Then most questions answered.
Sigh
^ True dat!
I have wondered how I got a 7 for a movement that I forgot to do (schooling show). But, I attribute that problem to a specific judge.
Almost all cases the comments make sense.
And to those who don't like my writing (as a scribe) I suggest you get your own self sitting with the judge scribing so you all can show me how it is done! My writing tends to deteriorate after 2 solid days of scribing.
Eh. That's a rider/trainer problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethe Mounce
The judge doesn't have the time or space to provide a detailed explanation of what throughness (for example) is, why it was lacking in this movement, how to fix it in the future. The best they can do is say there was no throughness.
The rider/trainer are responsible for understanding what throughness is, how to get it, etc. And really, should know before they even see the score sheet that the horse wasn't through and be talking about how to address it.
The judge's comments should be conformation of what the rider/trainer already know about the ride. They shouldn't be stunning revelations of hitherto unidentified problems/successes. So more explanation shouldn't be needed, really.
If more explanation is needed -- like I said, that's a rider/trainer problem. Not a judging problem.
At first I had a hard time understanding the comments, but as I was a total newbie to dressage, so not surprising. Now, after 3 show seasons, I rarely have a problem, except at the first show this year I got several OBDs, which I had never seen before. Turned out to be a real clue to how much we've improved that "obedient" was part of the comment!!! Thrilling, actually!
The most common comment I got last summer had to do with "bend" and it gave me an opportunity to learn what that means from the saddle (see newbie part above). Just not a concept that someone who has shown ring classes all her life intuitively understands.
I am fortunate to have a dear husband who comes and videos most of my rides so I like to watch the test and read the comments soon after the show. I can remember enough of the ride to know what I was doing and try to change if needed.
Feedback - the very best part of showing dressage!