Lotsa luck. Far scarier to me than the thought of gun control is the prospect of widespread government monitoring or detainment of people on suspicion of being . . . weird. Asshats, even.Quote:
Originally Posted by relocatedTXjumpr
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Lotsa luck. Far scarier to me than the thought of gun control is the prospect of widespread government monitoring or detainment of people on suspicion of being . . . weird. Asshats, even.Quote:
Originally Posted by relocatedTXjumpr
Would an insane person be deterred by the previous execution of another insane person?Quote:
Originally Posted by relocatedTXjumpr
IIRC the person in the movie theater got at least some of his weapons and ammo by mail order
If you walk into an elementary school and open fire you are not "weird"...you have a major problem.
Its not like we are talking about the person who mixes mayo with their ketchup to dip their fries in, thats "weird"...we are talking about people who want and PLAN to do harm to other people, children, animals, whatever...a little more than "weird"...
I dont know where he got his weapons...he had INTENT to do harm to lots of people and planned it...he KNEW what he was doing...his trial should be swift and it should not matter what his mental state is or what test he flunked...do not leave him sitting in a jail cell on the tax payers dime...try him, convict him and let him recieve his punishment...to say he is not mentally stable is kind of like "duh"...a mentally stable person probably would not have done what he did...but to me, that does NOT mean he should coddled for his actions. To give people an "out" or an option of an "out" or lessor sentence because of a mental disorder is making what they did "less wrong" to them IMHO.
I don't think that it's so much a deterrent. People who do things like this won't be deterred by much. I think it's more taking care of the problem right away. Taking years to deal with somebody who does something like that isn't the way to handle it. It needs to be dealt with. Now.
Although I hate to quote good ol' Ted, he did have a thing out the other day that said, "If guns kill people, mine are all defective!"
I was raised with guns around. My first job was at a gun club and I learned to shoot at an early age. I also learned gun safety and that you don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill.
Most of the guys I worked with at my old job had concealed carry permits and took that very seriously.
I think that the bad guys can get their hands on stuff if they want to badly enough. Although in the US, since we simply have more guns AROUND, it's probably easier for the bad guys to get them. But in other countries, bad guys get 'em too.
I don't know the stats, but I'd be interested to know how many of these gunmen got their guns legally vs illegally. One of my concerns here in the US is the process in which people can legally get guns. I knew a person who was on the way to getting a concealed carry, had no background issues, but was, at the time, mentally unstable. Had we not intervened, this person would've gotten a concealed carry permit. That concerns me.
You're playing semantic games, which is not an amusement that particularly interests me at present.Quote:
Originally Posted by relocatedTXjumpr
You don't want anyone touching your guns, but you seem to want people monitored or detained or investigated for being creepy or whatever term you want to use. What are you suggesting, exactly, with regard to "asshat control" that ISN'T a flagrant violation of that person's civil rights?
Look up the "murder rate" statistics. They tell quite a different story. Nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns. People murdering other people is not related to the availability of guns, it's related to other societal factors. If guns aren't available, other weapons (bombs, knives, etc.) are used.Quote:
Originally Posted by carolprudm
This is a good article on the subject:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf
Then let me clarify for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsor1
Asshat control="stiffer penalties for people who commit heinous crimes against other people. Faster trials, convictions, and sentencing for those asshats" No pleas or lessor sentencing for those who offer up a "mentally challenged" status.
I am not suggesting monitoring devices on everyone with some random person deciding whos an asshat or not.
Ah yes, that old argument... 22 people were stabbed... How many died? Not a single one last I read. Is it horrific? Certainly, but those children and the adult will get to see tomorrow and their families get see them tomorrow. I would like to see people who make arguments like the above go to the houses of each of the affected families and try to tell them that we it's useless to do anything about high powered firearms because people will just use knives. But you would never do that because if you did you would realize how ridiculous that argument is.Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter99
Thanks to a lack of gun control, and likely lack of mental health services 27 - make that 29 people, 18 - make that 22 - CHILDREN, lost their lives today. Their families will relive this every day for the rest of their lives. They will never have a truly happy holiday again because this will overshadow it.
And to top it off, it's the SECOND attack just this week. That is unacceptable, period. This conversation needs to be had, but not on COTH. It needs to be had in the white house and in congress. People are dying at ridiculously high rates compared to other developed and many less developed nations. Again, absolutely 100% unacceptable. We also need to start adequately funding mental health services. While it won't prevent all instances like this it will make a very large dent. Last spring in Seattle we had a mentally ill man take the lives of five people. I actually knew him at one point long before and he had serious issues then. His family tried over and over to get him help but couldn't get the proper services because they just weren't available and five people paid for that with their lives.
Ohhhhhh, I see. By "control" you mean closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by relocatedTXjumpr
The person who has a psychotic break to the extent that they kill is unlikely to have the presence of mind to acquire a gun in that moment to do it with.
If guns were more difficult to get, less mentally/psychologically troubled people would have one and when they did have some sort of mental breakdown, they wouldn't have easy access to one to create a tragedy like this.
NJR
Shoot, I hit the thumbs up on your last post, Windsor1, when I didn't mean to. Please disregard.
You might be surprised when you start talking about psychotic breaks. I have first hand seen it and such folks can seem perfectly rational and logical at times. enough to get a gun. And plan.
Some use bombs, remember the OKC bombing?
Same type crazy fellow, chose a different weapon.
I would say, guns do so much more good than they harm.
We just get to hear the horrible stories as this one, really rare ones over and over.
Then jump on gun control, as if that would have avoided that?
Well, maybe not, see bomb use above.
We need to address crazy people better.
I do not understand the mindset of people who can watch a situation like this unfold and think that the world would be safer if more people had guns. I just don't get it.
I grew up with guns. I've hunted. I'll stand with those who feel they need a weapon to defend their livestock, feed their family, or put a downed animal out of its misery. But to think that the carrying of a weapon designed primarily to cause harm would somehow decrease tragedy...I just can't wrap my head around it. We are already a country of hotheaded people who often act before we think. We do things we know are provoking because we flaunt our freedom of expression. And yet some think that arming the whole citizenry would calm things down.
Well I respectfully disagree.
I think our culture is entirely too permissive of violence, too accepting of vengeance, too boastful of what our own rights are that we forget our neighbors' rights. I think we have far too much bravado ('"if I'd been there, this wouldn't have happened") and far too little clarity of thought, compassion towards others, and lasting heartbreak at incidents like this which prevents us from putting aside our own agenda to truly work towards a better solution for society as a whole.
What sorts of good? The whole point of a gun is to hurt someone. Not saying I'm pro-gun control or anti-gun control, but your comment is puzzling to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluey
And none of the stabbed Chinese students are dead. Big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter99
Windsor, I have a feeling no matter what anyone says you are not going to like it...so, instead of badgering me, why dont you offer your own solutions? You can not stop someone from doing harm to people if thats what they intend to do...or I think you would have a hard time stopping them. HE walked into a school and opened fire on children...HE has/had a problem...why does he get "off" because it was a gun he chose to use as a weapon? At what point, as a human, are you reponsible for your own actions instead of blaming the "gun"? He made a decision to walk into that school and kill people, the gun did not do that for him, it was just the weapon he chose.
Am hearing that the shooter in the CT case shot his mother, a kinder teacher, then opened fire on her classroom.
No, guns are used here as a hobby and for hunting and for vermin control.Quote:
Originally Posted by NErider
I don't think you can stack all that guns are used for against the few times they are used to kill someone, other than in wars and good luck getting soldiers to go to war without guns.