I do think it's unethical not to be up front about the plan for the horses. That's my opinion. He/you are going to have to accept that ethics have gray areas and what one person considers just inside the line is what another person considers outside the line. I've made it quite clear that I don't have a problem with what he actually does (take free horses and resell them to anyone with green money including, if necessary the killers). I do have a problem with the way he goes about it (not making this explicit in his ads).
What's interesting, Outfxed, is that it's you who is making the judgement on character based on what your point of view. You are thinking that it's a sign of lower moral character to send a horse to slaughter. Therefore, by saying that he has the potential to send horses to slaughter, that we're saying he's of low moral character.
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that he probably is, and we probably ought to talk about it. Even if he's not - this thread has done a world of good toward furthering the discussion of what DOES happen at "this end" of the horse world and what should happen.
How can anyone perceive that as not a good thing?
In addition - and for the record - I do not believe that anyone sending a horse to slaughter is of low moral character *unless* they are not upfront about their intentions like the people mentioned in the thread who promised forever homes and then didn't follow through. That is morally and ethically wrong.
It'd be great if we had local and humane slaughter plants so that this issue was handled even better. We don't, because the NIMBYs and the people who get all up at arms about slaughter tried to ban it, and we're seeing the consequences of that now.
I don't see the difference between a bullet to the head, and a bullet to the head that ends up feeding other people or animals. I DO see the difference in all of this posturing that ends up hurting animals long term.
Not every horse gets to live in a competition barn, and I've seen a lot of questionable action and care in the "nicest" of places. Far better to be realistic about it, honestly.
FYI, the REAL local heros of rescuing horses and other animals in the Middleburg area are the wonderful folks at the Middleburg Humane Foundation.
They are a private not-for-profit organization. You can find them here:
Here is an article from my website. It is about a situation involving a kill buyer answering ads for free horses.
I've been emailing with him. He won't say what he does with ones that don't work out. I'm pretty sure they are sold at auction with no reserve. He is pro slaughter, but does seem to be helping some, by retraining and selling. I am ok with what he is doing but wish he was more upfront with what the horse's fate will be if he doesn't work out. That's my only issue with him.
On a personal level he sounds like kind of a jerk in his emails. I've been very polite, and he calls anyone who has the nerve to ask what he does with the horses "shitheads".
If you have one of those horses, giving it to this guy is the same thing as taking it straight to New Holland. So how is he really providing an option for people who have run out of options for their horses? He's not offering them anything different from any kill buyer, because after a brief assessment, those horses are still going on the slaughter truck.
I think VX's point is those owners ought to be doing right by their horses, not sending them to this interim path on their way to slaughter. And my take is that giving people who shouldn't have horses in the first place a free trailer ride to the auction isn't really such a great service. I'd rather they didn't have an easy way out.
And if he was upfront in the ad that the ones who nobody wants go to the slaughterhouse, how many takers would he still have? BTW the OP on CL has already been flagged for removal, so apparently plenty of people were offended.
However, I do have to give him credit for even keeping an email correspondence with someone who is asking questions and doesn't seem to be interested in giving him horses. He could have told you to go pound sand.
If the ad even suggested "I'll retrain and sell" or "personal pony" or "good home" or anything that many KB ads do, I'd be very disgusted. But he doesn't do that.
But suggesting that it should be the buyers/takers responsibility to spell everything out so the seller/giver doesn't need to lift a finger to google them or ask questions is sad; are we that inept?
And is it everyone else's responsibility to make sure they know everything so they don't have to bother themselves?
People that don't bother to ask questions often don't want to know, and, at minimum, have zero reason to bitch about the end results.
The only contact I've had with this man is when I had DD's large pony up for lease/sale before he went to live with a fellow COTHer. I never even considered his offer to me (to give me a baby off his stallion in exchange for my really nice made large children's pony) partly because I needed something DD could move up on now and partly because his tone in every email he sent me was absolutely condescending and rude. He also told me my pony would be for his daughter, but when I checked him out I found out he is a flipper and I felt like odds were good he'd be flipping my pony.
I don't have anything constructive to add to what has already been said about his solicitous craigslist posting as I think the majority here have it correct - he will flip what he can and send the rest to slaughter. Just not surprised to hear him call anyone who questions him a "shithead" based on how he was when he was communicating with me last year.
However: I was specifically talking to the person emailing him and being a bit upset about him not telling her what he will do with those horses.
She did not give him a horse, did not buy one from him, for all I know she does not even reside in the same time zone as he.
For what earthly reason would he tell a complete stranger his business dealings?!