Well, if he can't go to Africa, he won't, so please rest assured. I am very well versed in better sooner than later. But he's not ill acting at all and our move is probably 12-24 mos out. So in the meantime, if you don't mind, I'd like to get him eating well and not pooping like a fountain.
A lot can happen in 12-24 mos with a dog his age. I'd like it to be good though.
He's been on the very bland diets Spacy (thank you!) but he doesn't want to EAT them anymore. He was on the I/D, I/D low, Purina low, and RC low residue. All of them. Won't touch ANY OF THEM at this point. I'm pretty sure they just aren't stinky enough and at his age, he needs them to smell stinky. I think his senses may be going a bit while he's still very waggy and happy and not at ALL what you'd think of in a 9 1/2 YO lab. Seriously. NO ONE guesses his age correctly. Even the vets give me a double take because he acts the same now as he did when he was 3. He's never been obese, he's always gotten lots of exercise, and he has no arthritis/joint issues so he's very on the go. He just has a horrid habit of eating things he shouldn't.
But he's happy as a clam. It's ME that isn't happy right now because I can't pick up liquid stools on the trail.
If I'm not answering all questions, I apologize...you all are so quick. Thank you and thank you again for your responses. I'm catching up on reading!
Why not try acupuncture, it won't interfer with medicines. I'd call dr. Allen Schoen (in CT) for a referral to someone in your area. Explain your symptoms in case they can find someone who has worked with that particular problem.
And my dog wore a diaper when she was in heat, it can be done.
No suggestions, but plenty of sympathy. What a nightmare. Jingles.
Haven't read through everything in case OTD gets shut down, so apologize if I repeat any previous advice.
I had labs for years, breeding/showing, and carting them back and forth across the pond, etc ...but never had severe diarrhea consistent problems until I got my older Irish Wolfhound. She was so reactive until we get her just the right stuff - and it took months.
She is on Dick Van Patten's Natural Choice dry food - has 2 flavors she likes and tolerates - the duck, and the venison. In the morning has some cooked ground turkey thrown in, and some Nupro supplement added at night for old bones. The only way we've been able to keep her consistent is to stay with this food.
The other issue we've had is when I started taking her down the old riding paths I rode as a kid for long walks - lovely pine needle covered manicured wooded paths around a big old pond...and she started getting beaver fever (giardiasis) - every time! After it was diagnosed (although the test was negative, my excellent, grounded country small animal vet didn't believe the test...), and I had a clue where she might be picking it up, I even forbade her from drinking from any puddle on those walks. But it didn't matter - she'd pick it up on her paws. As soon as we took her back out there, she'd get the runs again. We can't go there anymore. :no:
If there is any chance that you have this in your area, if you don't avoid where it is being picked up, your dog will get sick repeatedly.
Good luck! I can relate to some extent. Hope you find the solution!!
(And, I have a bottle of metrodiazanole above my kitchen counter at all times!)
Thanks. Appreciate that vacation. Tired doesn't really encompass it. I know there are women and men with sick kids or spouses who absolutely need to "count" more than this. I get that. ( and I KNOW it counts more because they are PEOPLE so please do not think I am trying to be on the same plane at ALL!) But I am getting really tired doing THIS. I have slept on the couch more nights than not in the last few weeks so as not to wake everyone else but be able to take the dog out at all hours. And the one night I actually went to bed this week (last night)? Huge mess to clean up in the a.m. and it's NOT his fault. It's not. Who amongst us can hold it when it's liquid?
But he's so damned happy! He's even putting weight back on. So SOMETHING Is going better. After the 20+lbs of loss....he's up I think. And he's happy to take a 10 mile walk. He's geeked. Just a happy happy dog. Wish I could show you all a pic. He's not what you'd think of when you think of a lab that old. No one ever believes me. That's okay though. :) He's a happy critter.
No suggestions, I believe the best on the board have already commented. But jingles and more jingles for you and your buddy! If you find an answer or solution, please let us know!
Giardia is very common these days. My great vet in Colorado only treated dogs when they had active (and icky) symptoms, and because it is something humans can get, then it was usually after the dog and the owner had the same symptoms. VIrtually all of the dogs were carriers, and I'm sure it's spread very widely since then.
Is it possible that the dog's intestinal bacteria is screwed up by other treatments? I've had human friends who had that problem after antibiotic treatments, and they had to have lactobacillus capsules or live culture yogurt or something (I don't remember exactly what they did to get the good bugs back).
Jan, yes. THat is always a possibility. We did the normal fecal plus did the titer for Giardia. Clear. He wasn't on any abx before, but I did put him on yogurt and a probiotic. (acidophilus was the bacterial culture in the OTC yogurt) That didn't seem to help a lot but then again...nothing seems to! But he hasn't been on abx in over a year....other than the metronidazole which the vets don't seem to count as an abc.
BuddyRoo - so sorry to hear of your struggles!
My dog's issues seem totally unrelated to your dog's issues but I have her on a very strong people probiotic. The folks who are part of the dog liver group I follow swear by it for lowering liver enzymes (in short, helps protect GI tract from toxins circulating around due to faulty liver). They do not recommend the Purina probiotic that you mentioned because it doesnt have the types and numbers of good bacteria that this other probiotic does. My dog was actually on that one when she can home from the vet school but I've since switched her over.
The probiotic is called VSL#3. They ship it to you in ice packs and it has to stay refridgerated. I use the capsules for my 20lb dog. She gets 1 per day...half in AM and half in PM. The group recommends starting slowly so as not to cause new or additional loose stools. Its worth a try though! With his already compromised GI tract, it certainly couldnt hurt! FWIW, my dog's liver enzymes have decreased since she has been on this product and her ongoing battle with ear infections and gunky ears seems to be over. I'm convinced it's the VSL#3.
This may have been suggested already and I apologize if it's a repeat but the only thing that kept my Bernese solid was science diet zd. She was a super picky eater but loved the zd
Thank you Jenny. If I have to do Z/D I'm toast because that will be about 30 bucks a day at the going rate right now for a dog my size due to the QA/QC. Good gravy.
But I am not convinced that it's an allergy issue at this point so hopefully, we won't have to go there. or at least not long term. I'm going to hit some of you up for more info tomorrow offline...I need to learn more I guess. It is feeling more and more like I may be on my own here. Dr. D didn't call back as promised 7 hours ago. Or like last week. So I guess I am staying up for naught. I don't think he's calling.
I am about ready to throw my hands up. But your suggestions are good so I'll keep looking into it.
I'd try a better quality probiotic--either what SHL4M mentions above or something from your local Whole Foods that has multiple strains and is stored in their fridge. I use Multidophilus 12.
Thanks Simkie. I do have a whole foods nearby.
I just want a plan so I'm not testing multiple variables at the same time, KWIM?
Have you tried feeding a tablespoon of active culture yogurt with each meal? I think it balances out the gut. I use it to hold meds/supplements (just stick pill in yogurt) and all my dogs have LOVED it. I feed Mountain High yogurt, but others would be okay as well.
If I were taking a dog to Mozambique, I'd seriously look into raw feeding. Has to be cheaper than importing kibble.
I think I already posted my "dog stew" that I used to keep weight on a dog in liver failure in another thread, but it's something you could try now and abroad. Cheapo meat, some water, bouillion/gravy and veggies, cook overnight in a crockpot and then serve over kibble if you're still doing kibble at that point. It piqued Fred's appetite for sure as he was not that interested in kibble and he had always been a good eater before.
Ayup. My question to the vet, were I in your shoes, would be re: C. difficile. Ruling it in or out and how to treat if that's the problem. It can be notoriously difficult to deal with.
I think the tylosin is also interesting, but I would likely feed it WITH a probiotic, as decimating the flora in the gut might not be a great idea.
BR, as mentioned, my vet also tested my gal for Giardia, and it was negative - but she advised it often comes back that way, and she still felt it could be the case. Toula got the runs again when walked in our favorite spot. I stopped taking her there, she finished that prescription of metrodiazanole, and the problem was solved. Particularly if any of your favorite locations to walk/run are near ponds, are marshy, etc. think twice about them. I didn't want to believe it, so didn't change our routine either at first, but there it was.
Ended up walking her on the sidewalks in town for awhile. Then anytime we returned to favorite spot, the runs returned.
The one benefit is that I learned if she picks up something in the country now, she really doesn't have to be on a whole course of metrodiazanole - often one or two will do it.
BuddyRoo, something else to consider that I have not seen mentioned here is a course of Panacur. My vet often uses it in stubborn diarrhea cases, as it seems to be soothing to the gut.
I think we used it once when a course of metronidazole didn't totally clear up a Clostridial overgrowth issue with Riana. Another course of the antibiotic and the Panacur worked. She would get the liquid poo problem once or twice a year. Always a ton of Clostridia on the smear, although we never really knew why that happened.
Have you tried the drug sulphersalazine on him? It's used for colitis quite frequently. I have a dog that has to be on Tylan powder( just a pinch), a tablespoon of plain Metamucil and a totally grain free , Single protein food. I use Acana lamb and apple and This has stopped all diarrhea. Thank God since it took me 6 years just to find something he could eat without having the explosive, yucky, nasty water poops. I tried every kind of dog food out there including SD ZD which is suppose to be hypo allergenic. It was all a no go until I put him on this food or TOTW bison formula. I would try these things and see if any of them work. Good luck with your pooch
Acana Lamb and Apple is not grain free. The third ingredient is oats. Glad it works for you, though :)
Originally Posted by lucky dog farm
Shoot! Your right! For some reason he seems to tolerate it better than any other food I have fed him. :)